Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
www.redhotpawn.com - Play Online Chess

Forgot it?

Debates Forum

Aliens in Their Own Nation

Original post by Subscriber JS357, 24 Sep '13 20:38
  1. Joined : 29 Dec '08
    Moves : 6109
    "We have a problem with our Republicans. They don't much want to govern anymore, and we can't govern without them. This has been a long time coming, but at some point in recent years, America's Republicans, especially elected officials but also a large part of the rank and file, stopped seeing Democrats and many other Americans as their political opponents and started viewing them instead as the enemy, a nemesis bent on destroying the country.

    Certainly a significant factor underlying this phenomenon is white insecurity in a changing world, especially in the old Confederacy, in which the 21st-century Republican party has bunkered itself. But whatever the reason, given the symbiosis between the only two political parties we have allowed ourselves, this extremism endangers the governing arrangement that has held for the last century or so and by and large worked spectacularly well. It's as if one of a pair of Siamese twins suddenly became suicidal. If he harms himself, the other dies as well."

    And it is harming itself. The energetic right wing of this new Jacobin Republican party (which has swallowed the party whole) lately has been going through a purification ritual, turning on conservative stalwarts deemed insufficiently radical. In this atmosphere, merely participating in the essential acts of democracy negotiation, compromise, legislating becomes suspect.

    more at:

    http://www.esquire.com/80-things/republican-alienation-1013
  2. infidel
    sitting
    Joined : 09 Jun '07
    Moves : 40697
    Originally posted by JS357
    "We have a problem with our Republicans. They don't much want to govern anymore, and we can't govern without them. This has been a long time coming, but at some point in recent years, America's Republicans, especially elected officials but also a large part of the rank and file, stopped seeing Democrats and many other Americans as their political opponents and ...[text shortened]... g becomes suspect.

    more at:

    http://www.esquire.com/80-things/republican-alienation-1013
    A polarised two-party system is a recipe for disaster. In the UK the 70's
    produced a radical left-wing Labour Party which the country turned their
    back on. The result was a decade of Thatcher misery.

    A two-party system needs floating voters - to keep each party's ideology in
    check. If one party becomes radical it can become an opportunity for the
    other party to become extreme (since the floating voters have already been
    abandoned by the first).

    The Republicans could push the USA into Euro-Socialism!
  3. Musician and Poet.
    Dublin Ireland
    Joined : 31 Oct '12
    Moves : 13078
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    A polarised two-party system is a recipe for disaster. In the UK the 70's
    produced a radical left-wing Labour Party which the country turned their
    back on. The result was a decade of Thatcher misery.

    A two-party system needs floating voters - to keep each party's ideology in
    check. If one party becomes radical it can become an opportunity for the ...[text shortened]... dy been
    abandoned by the first).

    The Republicans could push the USA into Euro-Socialism!
    So what then is the way forward?

    No one wants extremism, but, the far right in Britain
    has been replaced by UKIP.

    This seems to be the acceptable face of the far right.

    UKIP is aiming to become the third party in Britain
    after the Conservatives and the Labour Party.

    The number of people joining UKIP and voting for them
    is rising.

    UKIP is the acceptable face of the BNP.
  4. Joined : 02 Jan '06
    Moves : 10087
    Originally posted by JS357
    "We have a problem with our Republicans. They don't much want to govern anymore, and we can't govern without them. This has been a long time coming, but at some point in recent years, America's Republicans, especially elected officials but also a large part of the rank and file, stopped seeing Democrats and many other Americans as their political opponents and ...[text shortened]... g becomes suspect.

    more at:

    http://www.esquire.com/80-things/republican-alienation-1013
    All you are seeing is an awakening of conservatives within the big government GOP. The DNC and RNC have walked hand in hand, waging wars across the globe, driving up deficits, and creating massive entitlements. They have done this throughout the progressive era. Conservatives just don't give a damn about the GOP anymore if that is the way business will continue, so those within the GOP have a decision to make. Do they turn their backs on conservatives and continue the status quo, or do they set a new course?

    Personally, I've given up completely on the entire federal Leviathan. There is no taming a Leviathan. You either comply with it or get devoured by it or you kill it. I think that the only way to reform the Federal government is to have the states amend the Constitution via article V of the Constitution.

    To do this they must first limit the terms in office. Congress has a 14% approval rating and falling, but they keep getting elected. How these individuals can opt out of Obamacare, which they forced the entire nation into, is beyond comprehension. How they can create lavish retirements is also beyond comprehension. What we need is a governing body that creates a society that they will be forced to live in some day verses being a distant aristocrat that lives in an ivory tower.

    I think most could get behind this, it is simply common sense. However, what about spending? Those who support Obamacare keep saying that it will help control spending, but having the federal government run higher and higher deficits does not seem to bother those same people. Why? Is there a limit? Is there a consequence to all these trillion dollar deficits? For most, the amount of deficit spending is beyond comprehension, and economics has become nothing but an elitist voodoo mumbo jumbo. We spend to make more money, we print money and don't concern ourselves with inflation as inflation stays magically manageable etc. It's almost as if Dick Cheney was right, deficits don't matter anymore. We can spend as much as we want without a care.

    However, I think most Americans simply don't buy this, nor do they like politicians like Dick Cheney who whole heartedly endorse such thinking. What is needed is an amendment to balance budgets. Hell, just passing a budget would be nice.

    So call me what you will. Suicidal, an obstructionist, an extremist, out of touch etc. All I know is that the "sane ones" want to go to war in Syria and run trillion dollar deficits. If this is what you dolts want, have at it. I've had enough.
  5. The Catbird's Seat
    Joined : 21 Oct '06
    Moves : 2598
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    A polarised two-party system is a recipe for disaster. In the UK the 70's
    produced a radical left-wing Labour Party which the country turned their
    back on. The result was a decade of Thatcher misery.

    A two-party system needs floating voters - to keep each party's ideology in
    check. If one party becomes radical it can become an opportunity for the ...[text shortened]... dy been
    abandoned by the first).

    The Republicans could push the USA into Euro-Socialism!
    "A polarised two-party system is a recipe for disaster."

    What is the alternative? American politicians early on shot each other in duals.

    The United States is a Republic, not a democracy, and its Constitutional mechanisms are meant to prevent fast and frivolous alterations in government.

    Government will probably never suit everyone under it. So floating voters are a given. It is important that the voters have some opposition to choose between. If both parties become too much alike, there really is only one party, and despotism is next in line.
  6. Joined : 29 Dec '08
    Moves : 6109
    Originally posted by normbenign
    "A polarised two-party system is a recipe for disaster."

    What is the alternative? American politicians early on shot each other in duals.

    The United States is a Republic, not a democracy, and its Constitutional mechanisms are meant to prevent fast and frivolous alterations in government.

    Government will probably never suit everyone under it. ...[text shortened]... th parties become too much alike, there really is only one party, and despotism is next in line.
    "What is the alternative?"

    There may not be an alternative of choice. The self-destruction of the Republican party that is forewarned in the OP article as being on self-fulfilling rails, will be combined with a demographic shift in population away from old white males to effectively destroy the party. We need a strong fiscal and socially conservative element but demonizing the opposition is not helpful.
  7. The Catbird's Seat
    Joined : 21 Oct '06
    Moves : 2598
    Originally posted by JS357
    "What is the alternative?"

    There may not be an alternative of choice. The self-destruction of the Republican party that is forewarned in the OP article as being on self-fulfilling rails, will be combined with a demographic shift in population away from old white males to effectively destroy the party. We need a strong fiscal and socially conservative element but demonizing the opposition is not helpful.
    The so called warning is one of many mostly by folks not too interested in the health or the Republican party.

    It is in fact, primarily the Democrats who engage in demonization. Check Ed, Al, and Rachel on a nightly basis.

    Has anyone noticed that despite his efforts to tax the rich, Obama's actual policies have been favorable to the wealthier classes. The Fed's continuous bond buying props up the Stock Market, but does nothing about the main street economy and the unemployed. His focus has been on assisting his cronies with government money, which they've taken and wasted. The old line industries of coal, oil, and natural gas he has attacked relentlessly, and these are big employers of wage earners.

    I don't know how he gets away with demonizing G.W. Bush, the TEA party, or Republicans in general, while spending us into oblivion. If there is a self destruction of the Republican party, it will be by those who fail to recognize their role as the opposition, and try to "just get along".

    The two Bush's failed to distinguish themselves from the opposition, basically admitting to the accusations of Democrats by the terms "kinder and gentler" or "compassionate conservatism". When you buy into the oppositions positions, you fight on his battlefield instead of your own.
  8. Joined : 02 Jan '06
    Moves : 10087
    Originally posted by JS357
    "What is the alternative?"

    There may not be an alternative of choice. The self-destruction of the Republican party that is forewarned in the OP article as being on self-fulfilling rails, will be combined with a demographic shift in population away from old white males to effectively destroy the party. We need a strong fiscal and socially conservative element but demonizing the opposition is not helpful.
    The democrat party represents the federal government. The GOP has simply been an illusion of opposition to it. They in no way represent the people. That is why they do things like opt out of Obamacare, and then force us all to have it. That is why they let the IRS target their adversaries, and let their buddies weasel out of paying taxes.

    Destroying the GOP is then of no consequence to conservatives like me. I would much rather destroy them than having the likes of "W" get in their and spend like a drunken sailor and wage war around the world, all the while labeled a conservative.

    Incidentally, what on earth are you reminiscing about in regards to the GOP? What GOP figures do you think helped the nation? Since Obama and Dirty Harry and Nancy Pelosi are all doing such a swell job running the world, why on earth do we even need the GOP?
  9. Joined : 02 Jan '06
    Moves : 10087
    Originally posted by normbenign
    "A polarised two-party system is a recipe for disaster."

    What is the alternative? American politicians early on shot each other in duals.

    The United States is a Republic, not a democracy, and its Constitutional mechanisms are meant to prevent fast and frivolous alterations in government.

    Government will probably never suit everyone under it. ...[text shortened]... th parties become too much alike, there really is only one party, and despotism is next in line.
    The issue is not the two party system, it is the destruction of Federalism. Once the federal government passed the federal income tax and created the Fed, they then had the purse strings and print money to buy off and/or bribe every man, woman, and child on the planet. Now state rights are only as good as the federal money they wish to turn down if they oppose the federal government, or as good as the law suites the federal government throws at states in order to control them. And with the Fed there to enable them to print more money than God has, the only limit will be the inability to hold it all together as debt rises every year.

    The other issue is Congress. Here we have a legislative body that was given all the power with the federal income tax. This was not meant to be. Since they now hold all the power, I should be able to vote for every single one of them. Members like Nancy Pelosi can only get elected in cities like San Fran. Since people like her have increased their power with the federal income tax, I should have the right to vote for or against her but I can't. Since power has been centralized away from the states, representation needs to be accounted for as well, but it is not.

    Of course, then there is the issue of Congress giving their power to the Executive branch and letting regulations, that are just as good as laws, be passed by unelected officials.

    The entire system is outrageous. The two party system has nothing to do with all this.
  10. Joined : 02 Jan '06
    Moves : 10087
    I have to say, I feel like an alien in my own country.

    The IRS targets conservatives like me because they identify me as an enemy of the state. Obama would rather sit down with Putin and Iran to "compromise" than they would conservatives in Congress like Ted Cruz. When it comes to conservatives, there is no compromise. It is either his way or the highway. Again, it is because WE are the enemy, not sociopaths like Putin and company. And sadly, if Obama had a son, I would not look like him.
  11. 0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,
    Planet Rain
    Joined : 04 Mar '04
    Moves : 1814
    Originally posted by whodey
    The IRS targets conservatives like me because they identify me as an enemy of the state.
    Don't flatter yourself. You're small fry. More like an enema of the state.
  12. Joined : 29 Dec '08
    Moves : 6109
    Originally posted by whodey
    I have to say, I feel like an alien in my own country.

    The IRS targets conservatives like me because they identify me as an enemy of the state. Obama would rather sit down with Putin and Iran to "compromise" than they would conservatives in Congress like Ted Cruz. When it comes to conservatives, there is no compromise. It is either his way or the highwa ...[text shortened]... ot sociopaths like Putin and company. And sadly, if Obama had a son, I would not look like him.
    The progress of this thread verifies the premise of the article referenced in the OP.
  13. Joined : 29 Dec '08
    Moves : 6109
    Originally posted by normbenign
    The so called warning is one of many mostly by folks not too interested in the health or the Republican party.

    It is in fact, primarily the Democrats who engage in demonization. Check Ed, Al, and Rachel on a nightly basis.

    Has anyone noticed that despite his efforts to tax the rich, Obama's actual policies have been favorable to the wealthier class ...[text shortened]... When you buy into the oppositions positions, you fight on his battlefield instead of your own.
    " When you buy into the oppositions positions, you fight on his battlefield instead of your own."

    The idea that this is a battlefield... well?
  14. Joined : 02 Jan '06
    Moves : 10087
    Originally posted by Soothfast
    Don't flatter yourself. You're small fry. More like an enema of the state.
    I know I'm small fry. It's not hard to see where all the money is, just go to Washington DC. There you will not be able to find affordable real estate property. The surrounding economies enjoy their elitist status. Additionally, if you want a good paying job you need to go to college, and the highest paying CEO's all go to colleges in big liberal states like Chicago and New York. Then once the corporatists see that you are a well trained big government liberal then you can be given positions of power over small fry like myself who do not know their arse from a hole in the wall.

    Yep, progressivism snubs poor folk like myself.
  15. Joined : 02 Jan '06
    Moves : 10087
    Originally posted by JS357
    The progress of this thread verifies the premise of the article referenced in the OP.
    What in the hell is progress? Tell us. Is it to continue to spend the country into oblivion and prop up failing entitlements and ignore the wars abroad?

    What in the hell do you want people to do?
Back to Top