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Spirituality Forum

pedo boy scouts

Original post by Standard member pawnhandler, 02 May '10 02:20
  1. tinyurl.com/ywohm
    Joined : 01 May '07
    Moves : 27860
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/24/us/24scouts.html?scp=4&sq=boy%20scouts&st=cse or http://tinyurl.com/3xtqbe

    It's not about spirituality per se, but a reminder that there is more than one group with a long history of abusing boys and hiding the facts. These scout leaders didn't take a vow of celibacy, so obviously that isn't the cause of child molestation.

    So is it that perverts find a way to become involved in positions of respect so that they can have access to victims? Or do they all start out with good intentions and something goes awry? I think finding the answer to that one would make it easier to prevent future victimizations.
  2. Joined : 19 Jul '08
    Moves : 76017
    Originally posted by pawnhandler
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/24/us/24scouts.html?scp=4&sq=boy%20scouts&st=cse or http://tinyurl.com/3xtqbe

    It's not about spirituality per se, but a reminder that there is more than one group with a long history of abusing boys and hiding the facts. These scout leaders didn't take a vow of celibacy, so obviously that isn't the cause of child moles ...[text shortened]... I think finding the answer to that one would make it easier to prevent future victimizations.
    Unfortunently it's a sad sign of the times we live in. True there has always been this type of wickedness but the Bible states at 2Tim 3:1-5 that an increase will be obvious in the last days of this system.
  3. Joined : 11 Nov '05
    Moves : 43938
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Unfortunently it's a sad sign of the times we live in. True there has always been this type of wickedness but the Bible states at 2Tim 3:1-5 that an increase will be obvious in the last days of this system.
    The catholic church pedophilia is a sign of the end of the world?
    I thought it merely to be a sign of the end of catholisism. Or at least celibacy and manly homo culture within the church.
  4. infidel
    sitting
    Joined : 09 Jun '07
    Moves : 40681
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Unfortunently it's a sad sign of the times we live in. True there has always been this type of wickedness but the Bible states at 2Tim 3:1-5 that an increase will be obvious in the last days of this system.
    Can you direct us somewhere that shows an increase in this kind of wickedness?
  5. Joined : 19 Jul '08
    Moves : 76017
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Can you direct us somewhere that shows an increase in this kind of wickedness?
    Well the scriptures in Matt pretty much explain this as well as other sad conditions that man would be in during the times of the end. It's there...Did you read it?
  6. Joined : 19 Jul '08
    Moves : 76017
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    The catholic church pedophilia is a sign of the end of the world?
    I thought it merely to be a sign of the end of catholisism. Or at least celibacy and manly homo culture within the church.
    Well that's a small part of the bigger sign Jesus was was describing here about the conditions of mankind during this time. He said them for a reason so we must use insight to see these things.
  7. Dumnonii
    Somewhere special
    Joined : 02 Feb '07
    Moves : 45496
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Well the scriptures in Matt pretty much explain this as well as other sad conditions that man would be in during the times of the end. It's there...Did you read it?
    But where's the 'increase' you mentioned?

    Have you any stats to back this up?
  8. Joined : 19 Jul '08
    Moves : 76017
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    But where's the 'increase' you mentioned?

    Have you any stats to back this up?
    You know I think you're really serious here aren't you? I have no doubt that your an intelligent guy but I think you hate the Bible so much that you are closed minded in a few things.
    So if things have not changed even in the last few decades on this earth, would you feel as comfortable say taking a leasurely hike thru the lands of the Middle East now as one might have 30 years ago?
    Do you trust in the econmomy as you might have 10 years ago?
    If you have children do you trust ones who may be intrusted to watch over your children as in a church or daycare setting as you may have a few decades ago?
    Would you still trust the safety of your wife going out at night to the corner store as you would have a few years ago?
    This is a few obvious things to think about and I seriously can't see how someone as smart as yourself can deny that things are not worse now then just a few decades ago. But you might...
  9. Joined : 15 Sep '04
    Moves : 7051
    Originally posted by galveston75
    You know I think you're really serious here aren't you? I have no doubt that your an intelligent guy but I think you hate the Bible so much that you are closed minded in a few things.
    So if things have not changed even in the last few decades on this earth, would you feel as comfortable say taking a leasurely hike thru the lands of the Middle East now ...[text shortened]... yourself can deny that things are not worse now then just a few decades ago. But you might...
    You seriously are a twit.

    So if things have not changed even in the last few decades on this earth, would you feel as comfortable say taking a leasurely hike thru the lands of the Middle East now as one might have 30 years ago?

    Absolutely not. Your ignorance is simply flabbergasting/ Thirty years ago, you ought to know, Iraq and Iran were at war. Afghanistan was in civil war. Rival terrorist groups were proliferating. Tensions between Palestine and Israel were equally acrimonious. The Middle East was just as unstable as it is now and only you, a real idiot, could fail to remember this.

    Do you trust in the econmomy as you might have 10 years ago?

    Ten years ago my country, Australia, was just coming out of recession. The economy was in growth but people were still cautious. If anything, Australians trust the economy more now than ever before. But I guess in your mind, Jesus would only have cared about Americans when prophesying the end of the world. (What is really interesting here, though, is how you link economic downturn with moral depravity, as if a recession is a symptom of moral decline. Are poor people evil or something?)

    If you have children do you trust ones who may be intrusted to watch over your children as in a church or daycare setting as you may have a few decades ago?

    Systematic abuse has been identified as far back as the thirties. Orphanages and boarding schools in particular were notorious for abuse. Only recently my state government, in Victoria, was forced to pay compensation to victims of sexual abuse in state-run orphanages, with cases going as far back as 1950. Sexual abuse is certainly not a new phenomenon.

    This is a few obvious things to think about and I seriously can't see how someone as smart as yourself can deny that things are not worse now then just a few decades ago. But you might...

    Oh, yes. Very perceptive of you, Galvo. Only a few decades ago the world was completely perfect. I can't think of a single case of genocide or world war... oh wait....
  10. Joined : 19 Jul '08
    Moves : 76017
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    You seriously are a twit.

    [b]So if things have not changed even in the last few decades on this earth, would you feel as comfortable say taking a leasurely hike thru the lands of the Middle East now as one might have 30 years ago?


    Absolutely not. Your ignorance is simply flabbergasting/ Thirty years ago, you ought to know, Iraq and Iran we ...[text shortened]... was completely perfect. I can't think of a single case of genocide or world war... oh wait....[/b]
    The dates are made up and you can't see that and see the point I'm trying to make? And you call me a twit...Lol.
    And you can't see that things are worse now then in the past? 10 or 20 or 30 or whatever years one might refer to? I guess not as your missing the whole point of the Bible's referring to "A" diffinent time in the history of mankind getting worse then it has ever been.
    Deny that it's not......
  11. Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
    Joined : 09 Sep '01
    Moves : 23533
    Originally posted by pawnhandler
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/24/us/24scouts.html?scp=4&sq=boy%20scouts&st=cse or http://tinyurl.com/3xtqbe

    It's not about spirituality per se, but a reminder that there is more than one group with a long history of abusing boys and hiding the facts. These scout leaders didn't take a vow of celibacy, so obviously that isn't the cause of child moles ...[text shortened]... I think finding the answer to that one would make it easier to prevent future victimizations.
    The boy scouts don't allow atheists to join. The Catholic Church doesn't allow atheists into the priesthood. Both groups have a problem with pedophilia. Hmmm...Perhaps if they actively recruited atheists into their ranks, their pedophilia problems would decline.
  12. tinyurl.com/ywohm
    Joined : 01 May '07
    Moves : 27860
    Originally posted by galveston75
    You know I think you're really serious here aren't you? I have no doubt that your an intelligent guy but I think you hate the Bible so much that you are closed minded in a few things.
    So if things have not changed even in the last few decades on this earth, would you feel as comfortable say taking a leasurely hike thru the lands of the Middle East now ...[text shortened]... yourself can deny that things are not worse now then just a few decades ago. But you might...
    Seriously? We have more access to news and information than we did; that's the main change. If you read the newspapers, most of the pedo reports that are coming out now happened in the 1960s and 1970s. That's 40-50 years ago! Women are not any less safe now at night than they were 20 years ago. The only time in the "good old days" way back when that women weren't attacked at night -- that was because nothing was open at night. However, plenty of them were unsafe at home with their "dear" husbands. And in many places your children are now safer than they were in the past because many places require background checks and fingerprint cards before you can work with children. Parents are also more aware of their children's safety and less likely to always trust strangers and relatives. Children are taught safety skills and awareness as well.

    So aside from the speedy access to information, what exactly is "worse?"
  13. Joined : 19 Jul '08
    Moves : 76017
    Originally posted by pawnhandler
    Seriously? We have more access to news and information than we did; that's the main change. If you read the newspapers, most of the pedo reports that are coming out now happened in the 1960s and 1970s. That's 40-50 years ago! Women are not any less safe now at night than they were 20 years ago. The only time in the "good old days" way back when that ...[text shortened]... s as well.

    So aside from the speedy access to information, what exactly is "worse?"
    Unbelieveable but then the Bible says most will not see it no matter how clear it is.
    2Pet 3: 1-4 points out the ridicule that would happen. And this ridicule would come from the majority of mankind because of not recognizing the signs and warnings from Jesus such as the increase of wickedness.
    Matt 24:37-39 confirms this more. Most will not see it coming.
  14. Cape Town
    Joined : 14 Apr '05
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    Originally posted by galveston75
    And you can't see that things are worse now then in the past? 10 or 20 or 30 or whatever years one might refer to? I guess not as your missing the whole point of the Bible's referring to "A" diffinent time in the history of mankind getting worse then it has ever been.
    Deny that it's not......
    I deny it.
    You are making a serious logical error.
    You are claiming:
    1. The Bible makes a prediction.
    2. The prediction is coming true.
    3. The evidence for the prediction is the Bibles claim.
    Do you not see your error now?
    How would your logic have been different 1000 years ago?
    If on the other hand you think you have any actual evidence based on statistics of facts about the world today and in the past, then present it.
  15. Joined : 19 Jul '08
    Moves : 76017
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I deny it.
    You are making a serious logical error.
    You are claiming:
    1. The Bible makes a prediction.
    2. The prediction is coming true.
    3. The evidence for the prediction is the Bibles claim.
    Do you not see your error now?
    How would your logic have been different 1000 years ago?
    If on the other hand you think you have any actual evidence based on statistics of facts about the world today and in the past, then present it.
    Deny it all you want. That's your choice. An article from 1980's. I would guess things are worse now?

    Current Surge of Lawlessness
    Back in 1945 many persons in the United States were surprised that the total crimes reported to police rose to 1,566,000. But 35 years later the total reached 13,295,000—and is still rising! This is a 750-percent increase, while the population grew about 60 percent! Rape increased over 600 percent! Violent crimes in general, nearly 900 percent! Imagine, in 1981 one out of every three households was touched by some form of crime! And this trend is not just in the United States. “The one thing that hits you in the eye when you look at crime on the world scale,” wrote a leading criminologist, Sir Leon Radzinowicz, in his book The Growth of Crime, “is a pervasive and persistent increase everywhere. Such exceptions as there are stand out in splendid isolation, and may soon be swamped in the rising tide.”
    Are all these increases simply the better reporting of crimes to the police? For an answer, a team headed by Dr. Herbert Jacob of the Center for Urban Affairs Policy Research at Northwestern University analyzed the crime statistics, police expenditures and methods, arrest rates, and much other information from 396 cities in the United States during the period between 1948 and 1978. In an interview with a representative of this magazine, Dr. Jacob stated: “Reported crime rates have surged everywhere in the U.S. Part of this is undoubtedly a consequence of better police and civilian reporting of crimes. But this does not account for all the increase.”
    “What is surprising,” continued Dr. Jacob, “is that in every kind of city—in the north or south, declining or increasing in growth, with a large minority population or a small one—the crime rose at approximately the same rate. It was a nationwide trend.” Can the police stop this ominous trend? “The police force has been generally ineffective because of several social forces beyond their control,” answered Dr. Jacob.
    Of course, crime is not the only indicator of an increasing of lawlessness. Just look at the general disregard for God’s laws. The illegitimacy rate of the United States of 7.1 for every 1,000 single women in 1940 pales alongside the 27.8 figure in 1979. The 83,000 divorces in 1910 have zoomed to 1,182,000 in 1980, a 1,300-percent increase! Now, instead of one divorce for every 11 marriages during a year, as in 1910, the United States has one for every 2 marriages! Similar trends are reported earth wide.
    Consider also the shocking atrocities committed in our 20th century. When in all human history was there anything to compare with the carefully planned execution of 6 million Jews in Nazi concentration camps during World War II? or the total death toll from that war—55,000,000? More recently, consider the 1979 reports of a possible slaughter of over 2 million Cambodians. What other generation ever developed and used a weapon that in a single blast eventually killed perhaps as many as 140,000 persons, such as the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima, Japan?
    Space does not allow us to give further details of contempt for God’s laws, but what has been presented clearly shows that since 1914 there is an increasing of lawlessness on a magnitude unlike any period in history! Yes, among the greater number of professed followers of Jesus, the love for God and neighbor has cooled off, just as Jesus predicted.
    Do not, however, let such growing lawlessness affect your heart. Keep your love for God and his laws warm, and it may be your joy to be saved into the promised “new earth,” where never again will there be a plague of lawlessness.—2 Peter 3:13; Matthew 24:12, 13.
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