An early knight sacrifice.- Reti opening

e4chris

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11 May '13 00:24

e4chris
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19 Jan '13
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11 May '13 00:242 edits
I've been trying this line out against the computer and have won once already.

Its so simple and gives black an awful posistion;

Invert Board PGN
1.Nf3 Nf6 2.Ng5 e5 3.Nxf7 Kxf7 4.e4 c6

I know it looks dumb, but... black can't take e4 I don't think, it actualy seems ok and its quite easy for white to build an attack. The computer lost to a slightly different line;

Invert Board PGN
1.Nf3 c6 2.Ne5 d6 3.Nxf7 Kxf7

I've looked it up as the Reti opening, is sacrificing the knight ever part of this?
SwissGambit
Caninus Interruptus
2014.05.01
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11 May '13 00:40
Originally posted by e4chris
I've been trying this line out against the computer and have won once already.

Its so simple and gives black an awful posistion;

[pgn]1.Nf3 Nf6 2.Ng5 e5 3.Nxf7 Kxf7 4.e4 c6[/pgn]

I know it looks dumb, but... black can't take e4 I don't think, it actualy seems ok and its quite easy for white to build an attack. The computer lost to a slightly diffe ...[text shortened]... /pgn]

I've looked it up as the Reti opening, is sacrificing the knight ever part of this?
This sac is no good. How is white supposed to attack when he has no pieces in play?
e4chris
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11 May '13 00:552 edits
oh ye of little faith... I will post the game next time computer looses! 🙂

- just playing for the scholars mate causes trouble, and white can 0-0 and blacks king is in the firing line...
SwissGambit
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11 May '13 01:07
Originally posted by e4chris
oh ye of little faith... I will post the game next time computer looses! 🙂

- just playing for the scholars mate causes trouble, and white can 0-0 and blacks king is in the firing line...
What if he moves the K off the f-file? Then it's no longer on the firing line.

How about a game vs. me with this line? You get white, of course.
e4chris
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11 May '13 01:12
Sure!
greenpawn34
e4
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11 May '13 02:131 edit
I can see moves like this working against a weak computer program
because they will take everything on offer and the idea of saccing back
material is not in their make up.

Against humans?

I looked through the RHP DB for this position.

A knight sac on f7 with nothing else developed.
I narrowed it down to three moves in case White played Nc3
so I'm looking for Nf3 - Ne5/g5 - Nf7

I found these three White wins all under 12 moves.

Game 8351361
Game 8387282
Game 8054183

Is anybody going to pass these games onto Carlsen to use as a surprise
weapon v Anand.
SwissGambit
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2014.05.01
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11 May '13 02:30
Game 10012433

It's a game in progress...so please, no comments until it finishes!
wolfgang59
Quiz Master
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11 May '13 05:40
Please don't call it a Reti Opening. 😞
SwissGambit
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11 May '13 05:42
Originally posted by wolfgang59
Please don't call it a Reti Opening. 😞
Awww, you weren't supposed to tell him. I was going to see if he found it out on his own. 🙂
greenpawn34
e4
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11 May '13 15:071 edit
And why not call it a Reti? White played Nf3 the move that
is the Reti trademark.

And Reti played Nf3 and Nxf7......once....and it was kind of delayed.

Witness this very interesting game involving an opening you would
not normally associate with these two great players.

Richard Reti - Akiba Rubinstein Germany 1922.

This is actually a very interesting game with quite a lot going on
behind the scenes. I've pointed a few Reti tricks but there is much
more in this game than that.

Invert Board PGN Comments

1. e4 {This use to be called The Reti till he started playing 1.Nf3. Then every time someone played 1.Nf3 is was called a Reti. When Reti played 1.f4 it was also called a Reti. Infact every opening at one time or other has been called a Reti.} 1... d5 {The Anti-Reti.} 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qa5 4. Nf3 Nc6 5. Bb5 Bd7 6. O-O e6 7. d4 Bb4 8. Qd3 Bxc3 9. bxc3 a6 10. Bc4 Nge7 11. Rb1 Rb8 12. Ng5 Qf5 13. Qg3 Qxc2 14. Bd3 Qxc3 15. Nxf7 {And there it is folks. If 15...Kxf7 16.Bg6+ wins the Black Queen.} 15... Nf5 16. Bxf5 Qxg3 17. fxg3 O-O 18. Ba3 exf5 19. Bxf8 Kxf7 20. Ba3 Be6 21. d5 Bxd5 22. Rxf5+ Ke6 23. Rf2 Na5 24. Re1+ Kd7 25. Rf5 Kc6 26. Rc1+ Nc4 27. Rxc4+ {A wee liquidating trading down combo. Turning the exchange up into a piece up.} 27... Bxc4 28. Rc5+ Kb6 29. Rxc4 Rd8 30. Rc2 Rd5 31. Kf2 c5 32. Bb2 g6 33. Ke3 Kc6 34. Rd2 Rh5 35. h3 c4 36. Rd4 b5 37. g4 Re5+ 38. Re4 Rd5 39. Re6+ Kc5 40. Rxa6 Rd3+ 41. Ke4 Kb4 42. Be5 Rd2 43. Bf4 Rd1 44. Bd6+ Kc3 45. Rb6 Rd4+ 46. Ke5 Rd2 47. Rxb5 Rxa2 48. Rb7 h5 49. gxh5 gxh5 50. Ke4 {That's a sneaky one from Reti. If 50....Rxg2 then 51.Be5+ Kc2/d2 52.Rb2+ wins the Black Rook.} 50... Re2+ 51. Kf3 Re6 52. Bf4 h4 53. Rh7 Rc6 {White's winning plan is give up the Bisop for the Black c-pawn and win with g and h-pawns.} 54. Rxh4 Kb2 55. Be5+ c3 56. Re4 Ka2 57. Bxc3 Rxc3+ 58. Re3 Rc8 59. g4 Kb2 60. g5 Kc2 61. h4 Kd2 62. Re2+ Kd3 63. Re7 Kd4 64. g6 Kd5 65. g7 Kd6 66. Re1 Rg8 67. Rg1 Ke6 68. h5 Kf6 69. h6 Kf7 70. Rg4 Ra8 71. h7 Ra3+ 72. Kf2 Ra2+ 73. Kg3 Kf6 74. g8=Q
e4chris
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12 May '13 06:02
Thats a cool game, not sure whats going on around move 18 - 19

The computer lost to this on a high level - it plays at bcf 180 and had 30 sec per move and thinking in my time - was not on easy - and it still lost quite fast. But like you say greenpawn it did make some silly mistakes, tried to attack my king rather then defend the posistion... I will post a game soon, once the one against swissgambit is over.
e4chris
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16 May '13 12:262 edits
Here is another early sac I'm trying in the Evans Gambit - it 'looks' good but the saitek defends meticulously against it;

Invert Board PGN
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.b4 Bxb4 5.c3 Be7 6.d4 Na5 7.Bxf7+ Kxf7 8.Nxe5+

And the atrocious Jerome Gambit is actualy an ok anti computer line;

Invert Board PGN
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.Bxf7+ Kxf7 5.Nxe5+ Nxe5 6.Qh5+ Ke6
the last move ke6 is what puts the computers in trouble.

One of the greatest games ever played by Blackburne had this line
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1029000 🙂
SwissGambit
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2014.05.01
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20 May '13 22:26
Well that was an epic FAIL.

Maybe another truth-seeker will step to refute it.
e4chris
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2106
20 May '13 22:361 edit
Originally posted by SwissGambit
Well that was an epic FAIL.

Maybe another truth-seeker will step to refute it.
Good game! Good game! 🙂 thanks!

see its not so easy, my computer is not crap, so if it looses...

I think with hindsite I should have played 2 Ne5 to stop you playing e5. And Nc3 gave you free development. Good game though, thanks!!
e4chris
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Moves
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20 May '13 22:401 edit
Here is the game, where is someone with houdini 🙂 ? 🙂

EVENT Challenge
SITE http://www.redhotpawn.com
DATE 2013.05.11
ROUND ?
WHITE e4chris
BLACK SwissGambit
RESULT 1-0
WHITEELO 1559
BLACKELO 1720
Invert Board PGN Headers
[Event "Challenge"]
[Site "http://www.redhotpawn.com"]
[Date "2013.05.11"]
[EndDate "2013.05.20"]
[Round "?"]
[White "e4chris"]
[Black "SwissGambit"]
[WhiteRating "1559"]
[BlackRating "1720"]
[WhiteElo "1559"]
[BlackElo "1720"]
[Result "1-0"]
[GameId "10012433"]

1. Ng1f3 Ng8f6 2. Nf3g5 e5 3. Ng5xf7 Ke8xf7 4. e4 g6 5. Bf1c4 Kf7g7 6. d4 Qd8e8 7. Nb1c3 Bf8b4 8. O-O Bb4xc3 9. bxc3 Nb8c6 10. f4 d6 11. fxe5 dxe5 12. Qd1f3 Rh8f8 13. Bc1a3 Bc8g4 14. Qf3e3 Rf8h8 15. Qe3g5 Bg4f5 16. exf5 h6 17. Qg5d2 e4 18. Ra1e1 Ra8d8 19. Bc4d3 gxf5 20. Re1e3 Nf6g4 21. Re3e1 Qe8g6 22. Bd3e2 h5 23. Qd2f4 Rd8d7 24. Be2xg4 fxg4 25. Re1xe4 Rd7f7 26. Qf4xf7 Qg6xf7 27. Rf1xf7 Kg7xf7 28. d5 Nc6a5 29. Re4e7 Kf7f6 30. Re7xc7 Rh8e8 31. d6 Re8e1 32. Kg1f2 Re1d1 33. Ba3b4 Na5c6 34. Rc7xb7 Nc6xb4 35. cxb4 Rd1xd6 36. Rb7xa7 Rd6d2 37. Kf2g3 Rd2xc2 38. a4 Kf6g5 39. Ra7a5 Kg5g6 40. b5 Rc2b2 41. Ra5a6 Kg6g5 42. h4 gxh3 43. Kg3xh3 Rb2b3 44. Kh3h2 h4 45. Ra6a8 Rb3b4 46. Ra8a7 Kg5f5 47. Ra7a5 Kf5e4 48. Kh2h3 Ke4d5 49. b6 Kd5c6 50. Ra5b5 1-0

move 15 was quite decisive but not sure if black could of stopped it.

EVENT	Challenge
SITE	http://www.redhotpawn.com
DATE	2013.05.11
ROUND	?
WHITE	e4chris
BLACK	SwissGambit
RESULT	1-0
WHITEELO	1559
BLACKELO	1720

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An early knight sacrifice.- Reti opening