"I love Jesus" , but ...

I dont love His commandments.

Those that don't have love for Jesus, try to earn their salvation through good works or by following his commandments.

These are typical comment from Christians

But Christ said John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

What a great big mess this so-called Christianity is in !!

Originally posted by Rajk999
I dont love His commandments.

Those that don't have love for Jesus, try to earn their salvation through good works or by following his commandments.

These are typical comment from Christians

But Christ said [b]John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

What a great big mess this so-called Christianity is in !![/b]

Well, I've never heard a Christian say either of those things, but you keep on insisting they do. I'd like to see you post an actual quote instead of just spreading propaganda.

Originally posted by josephw
Well, I've never heard a Christian say either of those things, but you keep on insisting they do. I'd like to see you post an actual quote instead of just spreading propaganda.

How could they say they love Christ commandment with one mouth and with another refer to His commandments in a derogatory fashion and call it :
- law keeping
- trying to earn ones salvation
- unnecessary works
- works righteousness
- hypocritical
- self righteousness

You yourself have used one or more of the above.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I dont love His commandments.

Those that don't have love for Jesus, try to earn their salvation through good works or by following his commandments.

These are typical comment from Christians

But Christ said [b]John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

What a great big mess this so-called Christianity is in !![/b]

Christianity isn't in a mess, Jesus is Lord over His church. The mess are
those that think they can earn their way into God's grace, the mess are
those that think they can reject Jesus and still be good enough, the mess
are those that deny people need God's Spirit to be called righteous in
Christ Jesus.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Christianity isn't in a mess, Jesus is Lord over His church. The mess are
those that think they can earn their way into God's grace, the mess are
those that think they can reject Jesus and still be good enough, the mess
are those that deny people need God's Spirit to be called righteous in
Christ Jesus.
Kelly

You are mistaken about several things.

1. Jesus is Lord over the entire world, and His church are the people all over the world that love Christ and these are those who follow His commandments. There is no other way to love Christ .. shouting 'I love Jesus' does not do it, praying all day to Him .. no love there. talking about it .. waste of time. The love for Christ is demonstrated and proven by following His commandments chief of which is to 'Love God and Love your Neighbour'.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

2. Gods grace is/was given to all of mankind not just Christians.

Tit_2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

This means that the death of Christ has benefited all of mankind, and paved the way toward eternal life.

3. However nobody automatically gets eternal life. There is path to follow, everybody has to do something and if you want to call that 'earning your salvation' then thats your downfall as it makes you inclined to deride the commandments of Christ and downplay the significance of good works. Fortunately Christ was clear .. those who do not do good works will be cast into the lake of fire with the devil and his angels. End of story.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I dont love His commandments.

Those that don't have love for Jesus, try to earn their salvation through good works or by following his commandments.

These are typical comment from Christians

But Christ said [b]John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

What a great big mess this so-called Christianity is in !![/b]

Popular Christianity must necessarily remain a 'mess' to validate the teachings of Jesus, I think?

Otherwise, the way would not be narrow.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I dont love His commandments.

Those that don't have love for Jesus, try to earn their salvation through good works or by following his commandments.

These are typical comment from Christians

But Christ said [b]John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

What a great big mess this so-called Christianity is in !![/b]

Doing so, as most Christians do, is far better than your version, which goes something like "I follow Your commandments, so love ME!!"

Originally posted by Rajk999
How could they say they love Christ commandment with one mouth and with another refer to His commandments in a derogatory fashion and call it :
- law keeping
- trying to earn ones salvation
- unnecessary works
- works righteousness
- hypocritical
- self righteousness

You yourself have used one or more of the above.

Here's a clue:

They were talking about YOU, not the commandments of Jesus.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You are mistaken about several things.

1. Jesus is Lord over the entire world, and His church are the people all over the world that love Christ and these are those who follow His commandments. There is no other way to love Christ .. shouting 'I love Jesus' does not do it, praying all day to Him .. no love there. talking about it .. waste of time. The l ...[text shortened]... ot do good works will be cast into the lake of fire with the devil and his angels. End of story.

1. Those that love Jesus keep his commandments as naturally as the rain falls. You have it backward. Love does not come from keeping His commandments, but keeping His commandments naturally follows from loving Jesus. I don't understand how you keep missing this vital fact.

2. Yes, "This means that the death of Christ has benefited all of mankind, and paved the way toward eternal life.", this is correct, as long as you accept Jesus as your Savior and accept His atoning sacrifice on the cross. Nothing more is required, but this much IS required.

3. First do the hard work of accepting that you are a sinner and in need of salvation, that you cannot do it of your own hands, and then accept the Christ into your heart and life (otherwise there can be no change). THEN, and only then, will good works (given naturally and joyfully) act as evidence of your covenant.

I assume you've heard of cause and effect. The one thing you need to come to the realization of is that the Cause of your Salvation is not YOU, it is Jesus. Accept him with your heart and mind and body, THEN you shall be saved and THEN come good works from you as water flows in a river. You can NOT "force" salvation to occur by doing good works without Jesus.

You don't hear of others' good works here because Christians should not boast. So you assume there are no 'good works'. So you think Christians in this forum are liars. You're not showing love for your Christian brothers and so you yourself are guilty of not following Jesus' commandments. You are doing what you claim the rest of us are doing. You talk with your mouth and yet your works are lacking. All of your rebuking in this forum should be aimed at yourself.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
Popular Christianity must necessarily remain a 'mess' to validate the teachings of Jesus, I think?

Otherwise, the way would not be narrow.

Perhaps you mean that the 'world' is a mess and the wide way.

Because it is Christianity that is the narrow way.

RajK,
Maybe you are missing the point. I want you to see that all the commandments of Jesus, are not the Savior. Jesus is the Savior. His commandments do not save you. Jesus saves you.

If you want to keep Christ's commandments, be saved first. Don't let keeping commandments take the place of Christ. Put faith in Christ for your salvation. Then after that, keep all the commandments of Christ you can keep. Feel free to keep Christ's commandments after you are saved.

Christ is the final sacrifice.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
Popular Christianity must necessarily remain a 'mess' to validate the teachings of Jesus, I think?

Otherwise, the way would not be narrow.

That is correct. If you understand the teachings of Christ and Im pretty sure you do, and you compare that with what is the Christians' interpretation of that doctrine, you can see how worlds apart both doctrines are. The true way of Christ is indeed narrow.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I dont love His commandments.

Those that don't have love for Jesus, try to earn their salvation through good works or by following his commandments.

These are typical comment from Christians

But Christ said [b]John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

What a great big mess this so-called Christianity is in !![/b]

I understand now after thinking about it and remembering your back ground.
You mentioned once you grew up in a Christadelphian church back ground..
Here is what I found and probably why you believe what you believe...

CHRISTADELPHIAN'S DEFECTIVE VIEW OF THE ATONEMENT.

Christadelphians deny the orthodox teaching of the atonement. They regard the death of Jesus on the cross as a representation of how mankind deserved to be treated. They do not regard Jesus as dying in our place. According to their teaching, our sin was not laid on Jesus, sin already existed in Him because of His human birth and His death was not an atonement for our sins. Their denial of the atonement is also confirmed by W.C. Irvine, a prominent Christadelphian, he wrote,



"The death of Christ was not to express the wrath of offended Deity, but to express the love of the Father in a necessary sacrifice of sin, that the law of sin and death which came into force by the first Adam might be nullified in the second in a full discharge of its claims through a temporary surrender to its power; after which immortality by resurrection might be acquired, in harmony with the law of obedience. This sin is taken away, and righteousness established."16



The Bible teaches that God actually punished His own Son in our place. Jesus acted as our substitute, dying for our sins. As Isaiah says: "The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all." (Isaiah 53:6) And the apostle Peter says, "For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God." (1 Peter 3:18)



4.6 CHRISTADELPHIAN'S DEFECTIVE DOCTRINE OF SALVATION

A common feature of these cults is their defective and unbiblical view of salvation. Christadelphians prove themselves to be a cult by their teaching that salvation is based upon human works, rather than upon the finished work of Christ. According to the them, man is saved by his own merit. They have no time for the doctrine of justification by faith alone. This is readily seen in a comment made by the founder Dr. John Thomas:

Anyone can just google Christadelphian and see how it pretty much lines up with what you have been saying here on this forum..

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I understand now after thinking about it and remembering your back ground.
You mentioned once you grew up in a Christadelphian church back ground..
Here is what I found and probably why you believe what you believe...

CHRISTADELPHIAN'S DEFECTIVE VIEW OF THE ATONEMENT.

Christadelphians deny the orthodox teaching of the atonement. They regard ...[text shortened]... delphian and see how it pretty much lines up with what you have been saying here on this forum..

I left the Christadelphian faith almost 40 yrs ago. The reason for my leaving was that they are very close to the JWs in that they believe they and they alone will constitute Gods Kingdom. Growing up as a teenager I knew that had to be wrong. After jumping around for about 20 years looking at what most of the churches preached about OSAS, sin would not be held against them, they cannot lose their eternal life, following Christ commandments was not required .. etc etc, I knew those doctrines were also unBiblical, unChristlike and on the broad road to destruction. So for that last 20 yrs or so, I stuck with exactly what Christ said. I am now like Peter who said it very nicely :

John 6:68 .. Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

You can get your doctrine elsewhere, but for me .. Jesus Christ has the words of eternal life.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I left the Christadelphian faith almost 40 yrs ago. The reason for my leaving was that they are very close to the JWs in that they believe they and they alone will constitute Gods Kingdom. Growing up as a teenager I knew that had to be wrong. After jumping around for about 20 years looking at what most of the churches preached about OSAS, sin would not be he ...[text shortened]...
You can get your doctrine elsewhere, but for me .. Jesus Christ has the words of eternal life.

It's not my doctrine, but it does line up with what you have been saying..