The fourth problem in the book. The plan he gives as the solution is to run over amd grab blacks pawns after gaining a tempo by playing 1.Kb2. Indeed the correct first move but this is a trivial king and pawn ending where white can just walk his king and pawn up the board and easily win.
Basically just a worthless problem as many variations win after 1.Kb2
Are you sure about that? I had a quick go at winning this against an engine by going after the kingside pawns straight away instead, and it looked drawn to me:
[FEN "8/8/8/7p/1k4p1/1P6/2K2P1P/8 w - - 0 1"] [SetUp "1"]
{-------------- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . p . k . . . . p . . P . . . . . . . . K . . P . P . . . . . . . . white to play --------------} 1. Kd3 Kxb3 2. Ke4 Kc4 3. Kf5 Kd5 4. Kg5 Ke4 5. Kxh5 Kf5 6. Kh4 Kf4
I may have missed White's winning technique, but even if I did, surely 1.Kb2 is a much easier path to victory and demonstrates a simple and extremely important endgame idea.
I don't have that many modern chess books, but "Practical Chess Exercises: 600 Lessons from Tactics to Strategy" by Ray Cheng is one that I do own, and I think it's a fantastic book.
1. Kb2 is the only right first move. Advancing the b-pawn is ok but without moving the king to win the two other pawns there is no win. It is less important at which stage the king moves away and gives up the b-pawn, but it is necessary.
Yes 1.Kb2 is the correct move but after 1.Kb2 many variations win and in the starting position two plans win. 1.Kb2 doesnt even need to be played to gain a tempo to win the pawns. It can be played with the intention of queening the b pawn asap.
Trivial problem and not the only one. Maybe the problems get harder amd more useful farther along. I'll take your word for it that it's worth going through and if it gets better I'll change my review.
Originally posted by Mephisto2 1. Kb2 is the only right first move. Advancing the b-pawn is ok but without moving the king to win the two other pawns there is no win. It is less important at which stage the king moves away and gives up the b-pawn, but it is necessary.
Giving up the b pawn is not necessary. This pawn can be queened easily because black has no stalemate defense with the black king on b8 the white pawn on b7 and the white king on b6 unless he sacs his kside pawns by ...h4 ...g5.
The only way would be if you let your king on b6 after he has already played ...h4. Then it would draw.
Originally posted by Data Fly Can you show a line where you think White wins by queening the b-pawn? Start with the moves 1.Kb2 h4.
[fen]8/8/8/8/1k4pp/1P6/1K3P1P/8 b - - 0 1[/fen]
Excellent, always shows a good sign when one questions everything they read.
I think you may be slightly wrong in this instance but please don't let that
put you off searching, testing and questioning.
This bit:
"this is a trivial king and pawn ending where white can just walk his king and pawn up the board and easily win. "
cchristoulakis - Chollywood RHP 2014. White to play.
Not quite the same position White does not have to play
the clever Trevor move of Kb2 in the posted example.
The RHP White player too came up with the idea of running up the
b-pawn and letting it go at the right moment. This plan just draws.
He wins by leaving the b-pawn where it is and sending his King across to
the Kingside. 1.Kd4 - e4 etc...Black has to waste time going for the b-pawn.
47. b5 Kd6 48. Kc4 Kc7 49. Kc5 Kb7 50. b6 g4 51. fxg4 hxg4 52. Kb5 Kb8 53. Kc6 Kc8 54. b7+ Kb8 {White has chased the Black king to the back rank which is where it is very happy to be, White now realises he is in stalemate territory with Kb6 and Black playing g3 so he chases the g-pawn.} 55. Kd5 Kxb7 56. Ke4 Kc7 57. Kf4 Kd7 58. Kxg4 Ke7 59. Kg5 Kf7 60. h4 Kg7 61. h5 Kh7 62. h6 Kh8 63. Kg6 Kg8 64. Kf6 Kh7 65. Kg5 Kh8 66. Kg6 Kg8 67. Kf6 Kh7 {The game was agreed drawn.}
Originally posted by iChopWoodForFree Giving up the b pawn is not necessary. This pawn can be queened easily because black has no stalemate defense with the black king on b8 the white pawn on b7 and the white king on b6 unless he sacs his kside pawns by ...h4 ...g5.
The only way would be if you let your king on b6 after he has already played ...h4. Then it would draw.
I think what Data Fly is getting at is that white can't guarantee victory if he leaves the kingside pawns alone. Suppose this position is reached:
White has to take the pawn and stalemate black or give black a queen and lose. But that's fairly easy to avoid, suppose instead he has his king on c6:
Then black will eventually have to let the b-pawn through with Ka7, if it is his move. If it's white's move then he has to abandon the b-pawn and go after the kingside pawns as Kb6 gives the first diagram. So white is fine as he'll win, but not by queening the b-pawn.
Originally posted by Data Fly Can you show a line where you think White wins by queening the b-pawn? Start with the moves 1.Kb2 h4.
[fen]8/8/8/8/1k4pp/1P6/1K3P1P/8 b - - 0 1[/fen]
White wins by queening a pawn no matter what not necessarily the b pawn. My point was that white can walk his king and pawn up the board not that he has to queen the b pawn. You can play many moves and win after 1.Kb2. I dont know whats hard to understand about that. The point is that anyone with rudimentary king and pawn endgames under their belt can see pretty much immediately that 1.Kb2 will allow them to walk their king and pawn up the board which must win. Why even calculate trying to grab the kside pawns right away?
Maybe i haven't presented a clear thought process since I have been posting from my mobile. The point is that the problems i have seen in the book so far can be solved intuitively and/or there is no deep point to any of the problems (so far) which is what i thought i was getting when i purchased this book. The description of the book leads one to believe it would contain problems unlike other problem books but that has not been the case after the first few sets.
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem Yes, here, have some more rope.... 🙂
Why do you even post? In my time here i have yet to see you post anything but unconstructive, inflammatory drivel. Go to chess.com, you'll fit right in over there.
Originally posted by Data Fly Can you show a line where you think White wins by queening the b-pawn? Start with the moves 1.Kb2 h4.
[fen]8/8/8/8/1k4pp/1P6/1K3P1P/8 b - - 0 1[/fen]
Also 1...h4 isnt even mentioned in the book. Which furthers my point about the quality of the book.
Originally posted by iChopWoodForFree Why do you even post? In my time here i have yet to see you post anything but unconstructive, inflammatory drivel. Go to chess.com, you'll fit right in over there.
Nothing over there is as entertaining as watching you make a complete arse of yourself. 😀
Originally posted by iChopWoodForFree By Ray Cheng.
Do not purchase this book. Complete rubbish.
[fen]8/8/8/7p/1k4p1/1P6/2K2P1P/8[/fen]
white to move.
The fourth problem in the book. The plan he gives as the solution is to run over amd grab blacks pawns after gaining a tempo by playing 1.Kb2. Indeed the correct first move but this is a trivial king and pawn ending where white ...[text shortened]... e board and easily win.
Basically just a worthless problem as many variations win after 1.Kb2
I don't thing the less-than-obvious need to win a tempo is trivial. The problem teaches a valuable lesson, because a good number of average players would just go straight to the kingside pawns and draw a won game.
Kb2 is the only move, and understanding why is a valuable and practical lesson for players. I really think you have done an injustice to the author.
Originally posted by Paul Leggett I don't thing the less-than-obvious need to win a tempo is trivial. The problem teaches a valuable lesson, because a good number of average players would just go straight to the kingside pawns and draw a won game.
Kb2 is the only move, and understanding why is a valuable and practical lesson for players. I really think you have done an injustice to the author.
He reminds me of woadman. Every time he posts, it's always "Look at me and how much I know about Chess!!" like he's desperate for people to notice.
Practical Chess Excercises
13 Mar '15 07:213 edits
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