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  1. 06 Jan '08 09:07
    Why is game 4382634 not a draw?
  2. 06 Jan '08 09:21
    You have to claim the draw by clicking on "Claim draw".
  3. 06 Jan '08 20:50
    Originally posted by viljami
    You have to claim the draw by clicking on "Claim draw".
    okay. for some reason I was under the impression that the game would automatically be drawn by the website.
  4. Standard member ruimango
    Jedi Chess Master
    11 Jan '08 08:05
    A draw was offered to me and I accepted. In consequence I lost 9 ranking points to my opponent? Can anyone explain me this nonsense?
  5. 11 Jan '08 08:17 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by ruimango
    A draw was offered to me and I accepted. In consequence I lost 9 ranking points to my opponent? Can anyone explain me this nonsense?
    If two players has the same rating then no rating points are changed.
    If the stronger player have a draw against a inferior player, then he lose some rating points to the weaker player.
    If the weaker player have a draw against a superior player, then he gain some rating points from the stronger player.

    I think you talk about the Game 4473121, right?
    You have 1449 rating points and you are concidered some 200 points stronger to you opponent (1246 points). You should have won against him, you didn't, therefore you lose some points.

    This is what rating calculation is about. Read more of this in the FAQ.

    By the way, I think the FAQ's explanation is far to complicated for a non-matematical inclined member. There should be a explanation with a rating table and the philosophy about ratings. This is a difficult concept, not easily grasped by a newbee. I know, I've been there...
  6. Standard member ruimango
    Jedi Chess Master
    11 Jan '08 13:14
    Thanks for the explanation, I understood and will not fall again in that same error. Nevertheless, my opinion is that it is a stupid rule because it's far too subjective, and more isn't clearly explained in the first place.
  7. 11 Jan '08 13:24
    Originally posted by ruimango
    Thanks for the explanation, I understood and will not fall again in that same error. Nevertheless, my opinion is that it is a stupid rule because it's far too subjective, and more isn't clearly explained in the first place.
    The rating is supposed to reflect a players true skill. Even if you have the wrong rating no, it will asymptotically near your true rating in a while. Som think of the rating as a objective measurement of your skill.

    The ratings are not so stupid as you think, and they are certainly not subjective as there is no humans in the process, only simple calculations. When you have understood the system of rating and the math behind it, then you'll see that it is the only way to compare players strengths to eachother, even without having to play with eachother.

    There is a lot of information about ratings in other places at the net, go search for it and you will see better explanations than those of the FAQ.
  8. 11 Jan '08 13:37 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by ruimango
    Thanks for the explanation, I understood and will not fall again in that same error. Nevertheless, my opinion is that it is a stupid rule because it's far too subjective, and more isn't clearly explained in the first place.
    If you draw against someone you have a higher rating than, you lose rating points. What's stupid about that? Did you think that a draw meant that the game didn't count?
  9. Standard member Phlabibit
    Mystic Meg
    11 Jan '08 15:17
    Originally posted by ruimango
    Thanks for the explanation, I understood and will not fall again in that same error. Nevertheless, my opinion is that it is a stupid rule because it's far too subjective, and more isn't clearly explained in the first place.
    Now you know, and it's not stupid. If you can't beat the player you are rated better than and the game is a draw, you will lose some points. Not as many as you would lose if they beat you.

    P-
  10. Standard member ruimango
    Jedi Chess Master
    11 Jan '08 15:38
    it's subjective because the ratings don't reflect many circumstances of the players like for instance level of concentration that depend on many things... i might agree that even not perfect it's still a good system, but regarding the draw situation it's stupid because you aren't supposed to beat a under rated player just because he is under rated... imagine what it would represent in terms of a football league. it's just a game between two persons and a draw is just a draw, it doesn't represent nothing in particular besides a mere standpoint. it's wins and defeats that represent an objective value in any competition.
  11. Subscriber Ragnorak
    For RHP addons...
    11 Jan '08 15:40
    Originally posted by ruimango
    it's subjective because the ratings don't reflect many circumstances of the players like for instance level of concentration that depend on many things... i might agree that even not perfect it's still a good system, but regarding the draw situation it's stupid because you aren't supposed to beat a under rated player just because he is under rated... imagin ...[text shortened]... standpoint. it's wins and defeats that represent an objective value in any competition.
    If you drew with Anand in a tournament game, are you saying that you wouldn't expect to earn a few rating points?

    Drawing a lost game is an art in itself? Why not reward it? Numerous "winning" attacks fail because they allow your opponent to draw. Therefore, your attack is faulty.

    D
  12. 11 Jan '08 15:54
    Originally posted by ruimango
    it's subjective because the ratings don't reflect many circumstances of the players like for instance level of concentration that depend on many things... i might agree that even not perfect it's still a good system, but regarding the draw situation it's stupid because you aren't supposed to beat a under rated player just because he is under rated... imagin ...[text shortened]... standpoint. it's wins and defeats that represent an objective value in any competition.
    You confuse two things I think.

    If you talk about (football) competition, then also in the chess world a draw awards the same amount of points to both players, regardless of their rating.
    The rating system is a separate thing next to the competition and reflects how good one is in terms of win expectancy (I don't know if this is the proper definition, but that is not the point here). Rating can then be used for torunament enter criteria, classification, and whatever.

    Adje
  13. Standard member zozozozo
    Thread Killing Chimp
    11 Jan '08 20:20 / 1 edit
    You shouldnt compare chess with football anyways, then we can allso compare it with roulette. As in a competition between you and the roulette ball.
    You bet on Black or Red and you get double your chips because you have (allmost) 50% chance of winning. You bet on a singel numer and you will receive more then double your bet since you have a way smaller chance to win.
    (lower chance to win -> more chips ||||| drawing with a player with higher ranking(higher ranking so you should have less chance to win) -> more rating points)

    Now i was trying to compare chess with an apple, but i aint getting there yet, appart from that its both good.
    I know this comparing i did was pretty much bullsht, im just saying dont compare chess
  14. Standard member ruimango
    Jedi Chess Master
    11 Jan '08 20:44
    roulette?... don't be silly!!! i was comparing sports where humans matter, not games of chance of dices or machines. About that apple you talked you should perhaps compare it with your brain... or maybe not, because if you squeeze both, the apple will have more juice ;= just kidding, it's just to say that you can't compare different natures...
  15. 11 Jan '08 21:00
    Originally posted by ruimango
    roulette?... don't be silly!!! i was comparing sports where humans matter, not games of chance of dices or machines. About that apple you talked you should perhaps compare it with your brain... or maybe not, because if you squeeze both, the apple will have more juice ;= just kidding, it's just to say that you can't compare different natures...
    How much rating points you win or lose as to do with probability, that's the math part. Probability is strongly connected with roulette too. Same same.

    Don't get too involved with the rating issue without knowing the facts. Wait, learn and then discuss. The rating in chess is used from the highest level of chess, ELO, to the lowest level, it is used in both CC and OTB, and it's actually working surprisingly well.

    You don't have to bother about the rating calculation. RHP system is doing that for you. Juest accept it as it is.