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  1. 08 Nov '06 08:18
    Hello,
    is there a way out, to cancel the tournament games? When I started one, my ranking was suitably low, but with all the respect now to the other players, advanced to the second round - those games will not be a fair fights.
    I would like to let the equal ones to play.
    I heard, that if you delete the games (or resign?) within 3 first moves, you will not lose your ranking. However, once before I already did that, and it was not true.
    4 games - minus 120 rank points - I have a dilemma now....
    Anybody knows a good advise?
    Taavo
  2. 08 Nov '06 11:58
    Originally posted by Taavo
    Hello,
    is there a way out, to cancel the tournament games? When I started one, my ranking was suitably low, but with all the respect now to the other players, advanced to the second round - those games will not be a fair fights.
    I would like to let the equal ones to play.
    I heard, that if you delete the games (or resign?) within 3 first moves, you will n ...[text shortened]...
    4 games - minus 120 rank points - I have a dilemma now....
    Anybody knows a good advise?
    Taavo
    Once you have entered a tournament and after when it starts, there is no way which you can cancel. Why not just resign all the tourney games then?
  3. Subscriber Ragnorak
    For RHP addons...
    08 Nov '06 16:21
    Originally posted by Taavo
    Hello,
    is there a way out, to cancel the tournament games? When I started one, my ranking was suitably low, but with all the respect now to the other players, advanced to the second round - those games will not be a fair fights.
    I would like to let the equal ones to play.
    I heard, that if you delete the games (or resign?) within 3 first moves, you will n ...[text shortened]...
    4 games - minus 120 rank points - I have a dilemma now....
    Anybody knows a good advise?
    Taavo
    If you resign before moves have been made, then the games are considered non-rated.

    D
  4. 08 Nov '06 17:01 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    If you resign before moves have been made, then the games are considered non-rated.

    D
    I'm one of the competitors in Taavo's group. He resigned his games against me because they hadn't started, but 4 moves have been made in his games against jtam.

    I PMed Russ to ask if there was a way out and he replied to say that he couldn't help.

    I think with all the discussions that have happened on RHP about banded tournaments Russ would have helped. Here we have a situation where the higher ranked player would like to exit but is unable to.

    The only solution that I can really think of is if jtam resigns his games against Taavo and then I resign mine against jtam, we'd all go through to the next round and then Taavo can exit the tournament in the next round. This is of course unfair to the other competitors in the tournament since jtam and myself would be effectively getting a free ride to the next round.

    Thoughts on this matter would be appreciated.

    EDIT: It's Tournament 909
  5. 08 Nov '06 19:41 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Taavo
    Hello,
    is there a way out, to cancel the tournament games? When I started one, my ranking was suitably low, but with all the respect now to the other players, advanced to the second round - those games will not be a fair fights.
    I would like to let the equal ones to play.
    I heard, that if you delete the games (or resign?) within 3 first moves, you will n ...[text shortened]...
    4 games - minus 120 rank points - I have a dilemma now....
    Anybody knows a good advise?
    Taavo
    It's possible [dunno if it's ethical or even allowed on the site] to agree with your opponent in a tournament to resign if he will play other, rated, non-tournament, games with you and then himself resign after enough moves have been made for the rating points to be returned.
  6. 08 Nov '06 19:55
    Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
    It's possible [dunno if it's ethical or even allowed on the site] to agree with your opponent in a tournament to resign if he will play other, rated, non-tournament, games with you and then himself resign after enough moves have been made for the rating points to be returned.
    Taavo would probably loose about 30 rating points when resigning one game to jtam, and would probably only gain 1 point in a victory over jtam, therefore about 60 games would be needed to counteract the 2 resignations.

    I don't even think it's a very ethical thing to do, no matter how well intentioned.
  7. 08 Nov '06 20:21 / 1 edit
    I must say, I think it is very magnanimous of Taavo to want to get out! We need more people like that on the site. Also, thanks to irax for pointing out the thread.

    Irax's solution seems sensible, but:

    1. As he says, the two in Taavo's group get a free ride into the next round.
    2. Taavo is likely to be in a group of two in the next round, so his opponent in the next round would also get a free ride into the next again round.

    Could it be set up such that Taavo is paired with irax and jtam in the next round, like in the current one, such that when he exits by honourable resignation early enough to prevent loss of rating, jtam and irax fight it out as if they had jointly won the group in this round and been drawn against each other as a pair in the next round?
  8. 09 Nov '06 00:55
    Being in the tournament but in a different group, Taavo should just play the games out. While he may be a lot better than his opponents - that is how you learn. He may win the tournament, that's the way it goes. At the time of joining, Taavo had a rating that qualified.

    If he resigns the existing games, it will only be a temporary hit to his rating. Won't take long to get those points back. But then are we playing for points or for the enjoyment of the game?

    Dave
  9. Subscriber daniv
    Daniel
    09 Nov '06 07:22
    I agree with dcpk - we don't play here for points, but for fun and, more, because we are chess fans. The point is, if you play in a tournament or just a simple game, you should do your best and trying not to favorize one of other of the players.
    My opinion is "let the things they are now", actual rules to be kept.
    Best regards everyone,
    Daniel
  10. 09 Nov '06 07:37
    Originally posted by chessicle
    I must say, I think it is very magnanimous of Taavo to want to get out! We need more people like that on the site. Also, thanks to irax for pointing out the thread.

    Irax's solution seems sensible, but:

    1. As he says, the two in Taavo's group get a free ride into the next round.
    2. Taavo is likely to be in a group of two in the next round, so his o ...[text shortened]... tly won the group in this round and been drawn against each other as a pair in the next round?
    I would agree with Chessicle. Let the two opponents in that group figth each other in the next round. This at least give one of them to get into the next round as at the moment neither of them has much of a chance. Because there are so many in this comp above 1600, it does not matter much to me, but it is probably an ethical issue to be resolved as it could become a precedent for maybe not so ethical benevolent reasons, but collusion betwen some players to get into a final round.
  11. 09 Nov '06 08:39
    I received a PM from Taavo offering a good solution, I don't know why he hasn't posted anything here. The solution allows jtam and myself to fight it out in this round and Taavo will resign if jtam beats me, however if I get one over jtam then Taavo will complete his games against him normally since it wouldn't effect the final result. Anyway, here is the PM from Taavo.......


    From: Taavo
    Date: Nov 08 23:16
    Subject: RE : Seven Seven Duel Banded 1400-1599 C

    OK, let us do the following.
    You continue to play with tjam. If you win, then you are the better one, and I can keep my games, cos there will not be any reason for me to resign. You will qualify the group anyway.
    If you lose to him, then he is the better one, and I will resign to tjam so that I will get the minimum harm but enough for the better one to qualify.
    Looks fair in this situation, ain´t?
    Taavo
  12. 09 Nov '06 11:29
    As you play your rating points will go up if you do well, down if you do badly. Losing on timeouts is a loss the same as losing from over the board play as Nigel Short found out against Kasparov. Therefore if your rating at the time of the start of the competition allows you entry, that is the deciding factor, not your ability at the start, middle or end of the tournament.

    I understand this seems unfair to some players but ratings will rarely reflect your current ability. We are not automatons always playing at one level. We have good days, bad days/weeks/months.

    Think of your entry to a tournament as a contract. If you qualify you play. You wouldn't give back your house to the original owners if it suddenly increased in value or demand your money back if it decreased in value after you spent time in it. Likewise if your rating goes outside the band for the tournament during the tournament you and all other players should abide by the original contract. Players must except that they can't always play against only opponents who are of similar playing strength. there is no system in the world that can achieve this. Play each game as it comes, and learn from both your weaker and stronger opponents, and most importantly, enjoy the games.