New Feature suggestion: If-Then Moves

This setting would allow you to specify if-then moves when playing correspondence games. If-then moves are conditional moves that will automatically be played on your behalf if the opponent makes a specified move. These can be useful for speeding up play when the opponent's move can be easily anticipated.

This has been asked for numerous times in the past, and I will make it available sometime in the future (probably not before the spring though.)

-Russ

I think I would only like that if it was mutually agreed upon, and the games were so designated--analogous to the set-piece games. I don't think it should be used for clan matches or tournaments unless, again, the entire match or league or tournament were so designated. The immediacy of making a decision is part of the mental game. In an OTB game, if someone under stress moves the wrong piece in contradiction to what their plan was, that is part of the game. The if-then feature seems to me to be a kind of "blunder relief." Even the best players blunder occasionally. It's part of the game.

Originally posted by Russ
This has been asked for numerous times in the past, and I will make it available sometime in the future (probably not before the spring though.)

-Russ

I would hope this would be optional only.

Originally posted by vistesd
The immediacy of making a decision is part of the mental game. In an OTB game, if someone under stress moves the wrong piece in contradiction to what their plan was, that is part of the game. The if-then feature seems to me to be a kind of ...[text shortened]... the best players blunder occasionally. It's part of the game.

Hang on. Either I don't get the if/then or else a lot of people on here don't.

The way I read it is this.

You program in certain responses to your opponents moves. Assuming this is for the first move, it might look something like...

if 1. e4
then 1. ..e5
else
if 1. d4
then 1. ..Nf3
else if somethingCompletelyDifferent
then doNothing

(better using a case statement here, but this is clearer to non programmers.)

So you program all this in, and then go on holidays for a week. Your opponent chooses a move, 1. d4, so now its your turn. RHP sees that you have a if/then set up for this game, so it automagically makes your move for you..Nf3 (might be a nice idea to be able to use your total t/o before making this move if you are going on a longer vacation.) your opponent never sees that this move has been programmed in by you. To him, it just looks like you've just made a move. He never/ever sees the if/then's that u have programmed in.

This is correspondence chess. You can take ages on each move. Whether that ages is before your opponents move (I often do this when starting off an attacking sequence) or after doesn't really matter. This isn't otb, so there is no real time related stress. The immediacy involved in deciding a move and actually pressing the 'move' button is the exact same as the immediacy involved in deciding a move and programming the if/thens. I honestly don't see where blunder relief comes into it. If you're going to blunder clicking on 'move', then you're going to blunder clicking on 'Save if/then'.

The only (important) times I can see this being of use are...
1) when going on vacation, you could program in some moves if you kow for a fact that u won't be able to move (don't forget, we don't all go to some nice resort for holliers). Maybe you'll have guessed what your opp is going to do and you have lengthened the odds of being t/o'd, which are pretty short if u just use a vacation flag.
2) You've just captured a piece and you know for a fact ( 99% ) that your opp is going to recapture, then u can quickly program a if/then to play your next move.
3) For opening games. Most openings are very similar and can be played by some type of if/then. Honestly, in book, how many openings are very interesting until u actually get out of book? You would need to be able to save/export your if/then for this to be very useful.

I think its a good idea, especially considering the fact that the vacation flag doesn't prevent people timing you out.

D

It would also be very nice if you could specify WHEN the move should be made. This way you could maximize the number of days you can extend your move timout by planning ahead.

I.e., if I can plan ahead say 3 moves in my if-then setup, I would like to specify that no more than one move should be played per day (or per three days, etc.), no matter what my opponent does. This way, when my "then" move is played, even if my opponent responds immediately with an "if" move in my setup, my subsequent "then" move doesn't get played till 23 hours hence.

That's hard to explain, but basically I'd like to avoid blowing my whole wad of planned moves in a 5-minute fit of productivity on the part of my opponent, when I'm counting on them to sustain me through several days of vacation.

i would like it if forced moves were instantly played.
this has been discussed before.... some people prefer to make the move themself, others prefer the move to be done automaticallly .... maybe we could have the option .... unless of course russ has something better to do like travel or party or spend time with the family or make money ....

I think it is a great idea especially if you are trying to manage a lot of games.
If you didn't want to use it then you wouldn't have to program in your next moves.

I tend to use the notebook feature anyway to keep track of the next moves I was planning so this idea would would make it even easier.

Note:unfortunately I have sometimes been known to put my notes in the message box instead... much to the delight of my opponent.

Originally posted by Ragnorak

This is correspondence chess. You can take ages on each move. Whether that ages is before your opponents move (I often do this when starting off an attacking sequence) or after doesn't really matter. This isn't otb, so there is no real time related stress. The immediacy involved in deciding a move and actually pressing the 'move' button is the exact ...[text shortened]... e going to blunder clicking on 'move', then you're going to blunder clicking on 'Save if/then'.

Your points are well-made, however:

1) Whether or not a move takes "ages" depends on the agreed-upon timeout and timebank periods. It is correspondence chess, but the time constraints are part of the game.

2) Whether or not there is "time-stress" depends on the number of games you're playing and the timeout periods, which is up to the player to manage. (I didn't specify time-stress, but time-management is part of the game, even with internet correspondence chess.)

3) I don't think I've ever blundered by hitting the "move" button too quickly. I have blundered by second-guessing myself out of a planned strategy (of the mental "if/then" variety) when looking at the board again after my opponent has moved; when playing multiple games, each time I open a board, I have to look at it, recall the game and rethink the play. The if/then feature would alleviate this, but I don't think that would make me a better chess player

4) I've never been timed out, or timed out anyone while they have their vacation sign up. I have known players who were timed out because they had family emergencies to attend to that kept them from playing for an extended period; I really doubt that the if/then feature would have made a difference.

5) This is perhaps trivial, but you can't employ a pre-programmed if/then feature in either OTB or regular correspondence chess (Then again, in OTB you can't use an "analyze board" feature to move pieces around in planning your game. 🙂 )

Maybe it's a purely personal predilection, but I don't think I'd ever use the if/then feature. If my opponents use it, it may give them an advantage, but I think you're right that it would only be a slight one, and the times when it is practical are limited; I wouldn't complain about it--it's my choice to play.

I agree with vistesd,chess is sometimes a game of mistakes(Lord knows I've made a few) from both sides.It sounds to me as if this "could" eliminate some of those and thus take a part of the game out...Russ shall we vote?

Originally posted by Great Big Stees
I agree with vistesd,chess is sometimes a game of mistakes(Lord knows I've made a few) from both sides.It sounds to me as if this "could" eliminate some of those and thus take a part of the game out...Russ shall we vote?

Surely this idea creates at least as many opportunities to make mistakes as it eliminates? (I'm assuming that once you have submitted your 'if-then' you can't change it) Surely your conditional move has just as much chance of being a blunder as your original move?

If you are thinking "but with a conditonal, I make sure I don't forget my plan", then I would point out that if your plan was a good one, you would probably spot it again, and if it wasn't ...

I suppose the one place where it would stop blunders is if you had spotted a trap: "if he puts his knight there I must do X to avoid the fork...", but the notes box works just as well for this.

I like the idea of this feature; it should speed up some games without significantly increasing or decreasing the scope for blunders. (I seem to be learning that chess is almost entirely a game of mistakes: avoiding them, exploiting them, recovering from them, ...)

My take on this is someone should be allowed to do the "If-Then" but it should be addressed in the beginning of a challenge along with number of days for time-out and time bank, acceptable opponent rating, etc. A check box stating that "If-Then" is allowed could be checked or not checked by the person issuing the challenge; if you don't like it...then you don't accept the challenge or delete it. For clan challenges the clan leaders could determine if the feature will be allowed. For tournaments...well, the organizers would have to decide.

Originally posted by Russ
This has been asked for numerous times in the past, and I will make it available sometime in the future (probably not before the spring though.)

-Russ

Definitely not before the spring!

I cannot speak for the ICCF, but this is how USCF corr chess handles conditional moves (a generally accepted practice in corr chess):

1. When you send a move to your opponent, you may also include as many conditionals, as many moves deep as you care to. However, these are binding, once sent, the conditionals may not be retracted and they may only be submitted at the time of your move.

2. Your opponent upon viewing your move and conditional(s) may accept or reject your conditional, but if they do accept it, they must reply to that move as well at the same time.

For instance at the start of the game I may send
Your move: (none)
My move: 1. e4
if 1... e5 then 2. Nf3 if 2... Nc6 3. Bb5
if 1... e6 then 2. d4


at which point my opponent could reply :
Your move: 1. e4
My move: 1.. e5

or
Your move: 1. e4
My move: 1.. e5 2. Nf3 Nc6

or
Your move: 1. e4
My move: 1..e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6

or
Your move: 1. e4
My move: 1.. e5 2. Nf3 Nf6

or
Your move: 1. e4
My move: 1.. c5

or
I'm sure you get the point...
In any case, other than forced moves and openings, I see little use for conditionals. The idea to program in a move to happen 3 days is interesting but we cannot really compare it to the USCF system as timekeeping is totally different. Personally, I dislike it as I believe that if you are going to play a 3/x you should have to log on at least every three days and anything else will simply cause games to draaaaag on forever by taking the most obvious moves and making them use the full timeout.

It makes no difference - you wouldn't be obliged yourself to set a conditional move, and it wouldn't affect your own times; you would still make your own moves in the same way if you want to - it just means your opponent would be prepared to reply to your move quicker.[if HE wanted to; which he can technically do now anyway]