Non-rated games count in W-L record

I notice that non-rated games count in players' won/lost records. I'd think that they should not show up. I might want to play some casual, non-rated games, perhaps against friends or family, or perhaps against opponents I might not normally play (e.g. very high- or low-rated players), or perhaps set-piece games. If I lose, I get a loss on my record for a game I wasn't very serious about. If I win, I might get an undeserved win on my record (someone playing casually against me because it's a non-rated game).

I know it's not the end of the world, and I know my rating isn't affected, but it seems that non-rated games shouldn't count anywhere. There could be a separate record for non-rated wins and losses, but surely they should count in the "normal" won/lost record. It might tempt someone to create a second username in order to play experimental or completely non-serious games, but this goes against the user agreement.

Has this topic come up for debate before? Your thoughts? Thanks.

Originally posted by HolyT
... but surely they should count in the "normal" won/lost record....

I meant, "...surely they should NOT count...."

Originally posted by HolyT
I notice that non-rated games count in players' won/lost records. I'd think that they should not show up. I might want to play some casual, non-rated games, perhaps against friends or family, or perhaps against opponents I might not normally play (e.g. very high- or low-rated players), or perhaps set-piece games. If I lose, I get a loss on my record for a g e user agreement.

Has this topic come up for debate before? Your thoughts? Thanks.

yeah that's a good point. Like if you're playing a friend and trying to teach him how to mate with 2 bishops or a bishop/knight and you are intending to lose the game. I don't think games like that should count against you on your record. Most people might not care about their win/loss record though (i'm not too concerned with mine), maybe that's why it is the way it is. One way to avoid it though is you could always play your rated ones on this site and unrated ones on a different site? Try posting this thread in the "site ideas" forum also. Might get more attention for you there. Good luck! 🙂

-- Paul

p.s.
here's the link to "site ideas" forum:

http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/threadlist.php?forumid=20

Thanks, Pavlo87. I submitted the same comments to the feedback section and got this response:
"Dear HolyT,

Thank you for your recent feedback.

We understand you concern about this issue, but it is unlikely to be changed now as the current system has been in place for over 5 years and understood by all established players. We will consider adding alternative statistics possibly, for rated & unrated.

Please let me know if I can help further,

Regards,

-Russ"
I also notice that this thread has been moved to the "Site Ideas" forum. I'd appreciate any other help or campaigning that others can offer.

ya, i like it the way it is now..

Originally posted by Pavlo87
Like if you're playing a friend and trying to teach him how to mate with 2 bishops or a bishop/knight and you are intending to lose the game.

Pavlo87's best case example was this comment (quoted above).

Look at the player tables. The #2 rated player has 0 losses on his record. That looks pretty impressive (and it is), and that player might even be motivated by that record, to play tight games and keep mistakes to a minimum, to preserve his perfect record (or he may not care about it at all--I wouldn't know). But that player will probably never play a non-rated game against a newer player in order to teach him something, like an opening, or a demonstration of a blunder, or how to mate in an endgame. So, that player will do one of three things, all of which are disadvantageous to this site and its players:
1. Create a 2nd account, in violation of the site policies.
2. NEVER use non-rated games for teaching purposes or other fun things like playing at a disadvantage.
3. Go to another site to do those things.

There is another strong player on this site who recently offered to play dozens of K-B-N vs. K endgames in order to teach others. What a great offer to teach others! He probably has tons of losses on his record because his helpfulness. If someone were to analyze his overall record without taking a lot of extra time to search through all of his games, move by move, that person would get an inaccurate picture of that player's strength. And isn't that one of the major purposes, if not the only significant purpose, of listing players' W-L-D records?

I used feedback when I first got to the site about this. I used to set up teaching boards for different things like mate with rook and other pieces... or mate in 3 things.

I no longer do that because they still show up as a lost game. That was years ago when they answered my feedback saying "Good Point".

P-

Originally posted by HolyT
I notice that non-rated games count in players' won/lost records. I'd think that they should not show up. I might want to play some casual, non-rated games, perhaps against friends or family, or perhaps against opponents I might not normally play (e.g. very high- or low-rated players), or perhaps set-piece games. If I lose, I get a loss on my record for a g ...[text shortened]... e user agreement.

Has this topic come up for debate before? Your thoughts? Thanks.

I agree completely. I could live with it either way, but I have played around 20 games with an 1800 player, some of which he lost intentionally (again, teaching me an endgame), most of which he won, and a few of which I actually won. Again, I'll be fine, but it would be nice.

Originally posted by Phlabibit
I used feedback when I first got to the site about this. I used to set up teaching boards for different things like mate with rook and other pieces... or mate in 3 things.

I no longer do that because they still show up as a lost game. That was years ago when they answered my feedback saying "Good Point".

P-

Some good points presented here.

It couldn't be that hard to add another few stats: Rated won/Lost/Drawn.

Something like
Games Played 483........Rated 432
Won 342......................Won 300
Lost 115.....................Lost 110
Drawn 26.....................Drawn 22
In Progress 26
Moves 12844
Moves This Month 70

D

Maybe we should request a vote for this to get some popularity going for it.

After all, we haven't had a decent vote in forever.

I'm in favor of submitting this to a vote, but it looks like, as a non-subscriber, I don't have any options to create a vote, unless I'm missing something. It should read something like this:

Should the results of non-rated games count in players' won-lost-drawn records, or should they be listed separately?
a. Include all rated and and non-rated games together in the W-L-D records (current system).
b. Only include rated games in the W-L-D records. (The W-L-D record for non-rated games would either be listed separately or not listed at all.)

Thanks!

Originally posted by wittywonka
Maybe we should request a vote for this to get some popularity going for it.

After all, we haven't had a decent vote in forever.

and theres something we can all agree on 😀

We should also indicate that the change in the way the W-L-D record is listed would apply to both the player profiles and the player tables.

It's a good idea to put this up for vote, the result would be interesting to see.

Can you set up a new id for non rate play?