Avoiding the KID.

I have a terrible record against the Kings Indian defence. After many years of loses i thought it was about time to try and develop a system. My style is somewhat quiet for the KID. I can calculate tactics reasonably well, but it has always struck me that the main line of the KID just allows black to have all the fun. Generally speaking white advances pawns on the queenside, black advances pawns on the king side, but ultimately it is whites king that comes under attack.

I don't like playing games like this. I much prefer to play something solid which involves some manoeuvring, rather than going for your opponents throat right out of the opening.

Anyway, after having tried various systems, like the Colle/London type systems (with pawns on c3/d4/e3), to the Smyslov variations of the KID, i stumbled upon the idea of playing the English opening. The important feature of this idea is that white places a pawn on d3 (rather than d4) which allows some interesting ideas. The main idea behind this is obviously a strategic focus on d5 as a potential square, which is th main idea behind the english. But also it allows the Ra1 to move to b1, without coming under attack from blacks white bishop on the b1-h2 diagonal. White basically gets to combine a lot of the original strategy of the KID (white advances pawns on the queenside and tries to open up the h1-a8 diagonal for the bishop) but can also combine with the strategy of the English, which is actually quite similar in a lot of ways...

Here is a game. The standard isn't perfect by any means but i thought i would share the idea as it is a nice way to get black out of book completely. The one downside is it invites Grunfeld but that is another discussion..

Anyway, it would be great to get some comments. Does anyone have a system they like to play against the KID that they would like to share? 🙂

We'll, I am Kid guy, so I can't help other way than point out to ca. 30 Petrossian's games as white in which he busted or suffocated his opponents

Originally posted by vandervelde
We'll, I am Kid guy, so I can't help other way than point out to ca. 30 Petrossian's games as white in which he busted or suffocated his opponents

Is there a particular set up by white that you find frustrating playing the KID?

Or is it mostly the ability of the player that makes things difficult? 😀

Originally posted by vandervelde
We'll, I am Kid guy, so I can't help other way than point out to ca. 30 Petrossian's games as white in which he busted or suffocated his opponents

Thanks i'll check those out.

Originally posted by Eladar
Is there a particular set up by white that you find frustrating playing the KID?

Or is it mostly the ability of the player that makes things difficult? 😀

No it is blacks set up that i find frustrating, i am talking about playing the white side of the KID. It is the pawn storm along the e-f-g files with all those knights jumping around the white king. It is too sharp for my taste..

Benko - Fischer, Buenos Aires, 1960

Originally posted by Marinkatomb
No it is blacks set up that i find frustrating, i am talking about playing the white side of the KID. It is the pawn storm along the e-f-g files with all those knights jumping around the white king. It is too sharp for my taste..

You might want to play what he finds frustrating.

Originally posted by Eladar
You might want to play what he finds frustrating.

It all comes down to style. A KID player generally bashes out the same sort of ideas no matter what sort of set up white goes for. Prepare and play ..e5, tempt the d-pawn forward. Re-route the knights to allow the e/f/g pawns to roll forward and jump the knights in behind the pawns.

In blitz it is very effective, as black can often play really quickly while white has to be much more careful with his move order. I think that it is possible to make the game a lot slower by refraining from the thematic white pawn centre (pawns on c4/d4/e4). With a pawn on e3, for example, a lot of the sting is taken out of blacks pawn storm as white has f4 under control.

I like this English opening style i posted above. It strikes me that white gets to do all the normal things he would aim for on the Queenside in, what feels to me at least, to be much safer way.

Have you looked at Summerscale's stuff with the Barry Attack?

Not sure if you'll like it, it isn't always safe and many times ends up castling queenside.

Originally posted by Eladar
Have you looked at Summerscale's stuff with the Barry Attack?

Not sure if you'll like it, it isn't always safe and many times ends up castling queenside.

Well nothing is completely risk free obviously. I think the main thing i am looking for is something a bit more classical in nature. My style is somewhat more positional than tactical, so my idea of heaven is a slight space advantage that can be nursed for 50 moves, rather than a doomsday nuclear holocaust straight out of the opening. 🙂

Originally posted by moonbus
Benko - Fischer, Buenos Aires, 1960


[pgn]1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 Bg7 4. Bg2 O-O 5. Nc3 d6 6. Nf3 Nc6
7. h3 e5 8. O-O exd4 9. Nxd4 Nxd4 10. Qxd4 Be6 11. Qh4 Nd7
12. Bg5 f6 13. Be3 g5 14. Qd4 f5 15. Qd2 f4 16. gxf4 gxf4
17. Bxf4 Nb6 18. Qe3 Qf6 19. Bg5 Qg6 20. Qg3 Nxc4 21. Nd5 Qf7
22. Bh6 c6 23. Bxg7 Qxg7 24. Qxg7+ Kxg7 25. Nc7 Kf6 26. Nxa8
Rxa8 27. b3 1-0[/pgn]

Thanks Moonbus. As it happens, that is exactly the line i have been playing for years! Fischer played a bit of a dud in that game. He subsequently went on to demonstrate a number of better lines against the the fianchettoed white setup.

By playing neither d4 nor e4 you are giving up the middle of the board to black.

If you want a piece of the center, how about the catalan?

Have you looked at this game?

YouTube

Kramnik Nakamura London 2014

Originally posted by Marinkatomb
Thanks Moonbus. As it happens, that is exactly the line i have been playing for years! Fischer played a bit of a dud in that game. He subsequently went on to demonstrate a number of better lines against the the fianchettoed white setup.

Yes, Fischer unwisely over-extended his k-side pawns in that game, and Benko was able to regroup and counter-attack. The point being that the black k-position is not impregnable, white is not forced to play on the q-side. Go for it.

I aim for this all the time vs the KID:



OK the move order may be slightly off, but this same position after move 6 can often be reached in KID games.
I personally find it more appealing for White than for Black.

Now it may not always win, but I guess if it can beat the MIGHTY ZorroTheFox then it must be good 🙂
Full game: Game 11738768

I'm guessing you've tried this?
It really is a matter of style and taste... personally, I recommend 1.e4 😛