Originally posted by apathist
It is an interesting subject. I'm sorry I don't have the time to treat it right.
DT, sometimes I see the materialistic/deterministic view so clearly, I wanna convert. But, I believe that minds exist, (or happen), and that changes everything.
How does that "changes everything"? If you are implying that determinism contradicts the existence of mind, how does it contradict? I see no contradiction. Mind is a process of a brain (although that doesn't define what mind is ) . If we have determinism, all that means is that the process of mind is determined and, when we make a choice, that choice is determined albeit probably with a considerable pseudo-random element making it still impossible to predict in practical terms.
" ]We have to acknowledge the existence of consciousness and somehow account for it. "
I see no reason to reject determinism to acknowledge the existence of consciousness and I fail to see how the rejection of determinism helps or gets us any closer to us "account for it" (although the words 'consciousness' and 'mind' currently have no scientific meaning anyway. But I think one day that could change ). I acknowledge the existence of some personal difficult-to-define (perhaps impossible-to-define? ) experiences that I collectively call 'consciousness'; and yet that acknowledgement doesn't in any way make me think I should reject determinism.
Don't get me wrong; I don't believe in determinism in particular. I just fail to see what mind/consciences has got to do with whether it is true. It may or may not be true but mind/consciences has nothing to do with that.
P.S.
Whenever anyone talks about mind or consciousness, no one knows what he is talking about; and that includes myself. So I literally don't know what I am talking about so you may legitimately reject everything I say here about it on that premise.