Clan Elo Rating Suggestion

Originally posted by padger
I will keep repeating this until someone can show me any errors in my reasoning
I hope everyone comes to their senses and realises what adopting ELO will mean for the future of the clan challenge
Far from curing the ails of the clan challenge it will make it worse
It will result in the top clans fearing being challenged from those below ( because a loss ...[text shortened]... or individuals but not for clans
It was not meant for clans and should therefore be thrown out

The only thing the Elo system will do is make it easier to cheat
A clan can use collusion to get to the top then sit back refusing challenges from clans below them
To get round the inactive scenario just play the sister clans again and again does not matter if they get no ratings points for a win keeps them at the top
Trying this is a waste of time and money impossible for it too work
Curious how last year's biggest cheat is rooting for it I can see right through his idea
Let's start with roll back and suspension then we can move forward

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Indeed but the forces of gloom have their own twisted narrative. The fact of the matter is that the system is changing and if the Easy Riders success as the most prolific clan in history had anything to do with that then we should feel vindicated. We did the entire system a huge favour and all we get in return is grief. Posterity will look upon as ...[text shortened]... freedom fighters, revolutionaries that changed the world and you my friend were our inspiration.

The only thing Easy Riders have is "suck cess" as in cess pool.

Originally posted by padger
I will keep repeating this until someone can show me any errors in my reasoning
I hope everyone comes to their senses and realises what adopting ELO will mean for the future of the clan challenge
Far from curing the ails of the clan challenge it will make it worse
It will result in the top clans fearing being challenged from those below ( because a loss ...[text shortened]... or individuals but not for clans
It was not meant for clans and should therefore be thrown out

sigh,

Sweet child in time
You'll see the line
The line that's drawn between
Good and bad

See the blind man
Shooting at the world
Bullets flying
Ohh taking toll

If you've been bad
Oh Lord I bet you have
And you've not been hit
Oh by flying lead

You'd better close your eyes
Ooohhhh bow your head
Wait for the ricochet

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
sigh,

Sweet child in time
You'll see the line
The line that's drawn between
Good and bad

See the blind man
Shooting at the world
Bullets flying
Ohh taking toll

If you've been bad
Oh Lord I bet you have
And you've not been hit
Oh by flying lead

You'd better close your eyes
Ooohhhh bow your head
Wait for the ricochet

I will keep repeating this until someone can show me any errors in my reasoning
I hope everyone comes to their senses and realises what adopting ELO will mean for the future of the clan challenge
Far from curing the ails of the clan challenge it will make it worse
It will result in the top clans fearing being challenged from those below ( because a loss will mean a plunge into the depths )
It will promote sandbagging to gain an advantage over other clans
The only way it could work is if everybody was honest
Small chance of that from what I have seen so far
ELO may work for individuals but not for clans
It was not meant for clans and should therefore be thrown out

Originally posted by padger
I will keep repeating this until someone can show me any errors in my reasoning
I hope everyone comes to their senses and realises what adopting ELO will mean for the future of the clan challenge
Far from curing the ails of the clan challenge it will make it worse
It will result in the top clans fearing being challenged from those below ( because a loss ...[text shortened]... or individuals but not for clans
It was not meant for clans and should therefore be thrown out

How ratings-based clan rankings would work has been explained several times at length. I don't see an error in your reasoning because there isn't any reasoning there, just blind resistance.

Here's how it is, Padger: you've been driving in the desert in four-wheel-drive vehicles, and because tyre-driven vehicles are prone to getting flats, you always carry spares on the roof. Now someone shows you a hover craft, but you're so fixated on tyres that all you can do is stare at the roof of the hovercraft and say, "it hasn't got any spare tyres, this can't work."

Take the trouble to find out how ratings actually work. Then the proposal to base clan standings on ratings will make sense.

I'm not saying it will stop collusion; that is a separate issue. But it would put clans on a level playing field, it would fix what is wrong with the current system of awarding points, and it would render sandbagging (in all its forms) irrelevant.

Originally posted by moonbus
How ratings-based clan rankings would work has been explained several times at length. I don't see an error in your reasoning because there isn't any reasoning there, just blind resistance.

Can you explain how the Elo will stop collusion
Clans a b c d hand clan e points just like last year and this year
When clan e is on top they will not only play their feeder clans does not matter if their rating goes up they will stay on top
If everyone played fair the Elo would work but that will not happen due to blatant cheats on here

Originally posted by roma45
Can you explain how the Elo will stop collusion
Clans a b c d hand clan e points just like last year and this year
When clan e is on top they will not only play their feeder clans does not matter if their rating goes up they will stay on top
If everyone played fair the Elo would work but that will not happen due to blatant cheats on here

Sorry, you replied before I could edit my previous post. Please re-read.

Originally posted by moonbus
Sorry, you replied before I could edit my previous post. Please re-read.

So the Elo system won't stop collusion glad you finally see that
Great hovercraft example a lot of hot air in the forums as well
Only roll back and suspensions will stop cheats

Originally posted by roma45
So the Elo system won't stop collusion glad you finally see that
Great hovercraft example a lot of hot air in the forums as well
Only roll back and suspensions will stop cheats

what part about having been explained to you before that you are having trouble with?

Originally posted by roma45
So the Elo system won't stop collusion glad you finally see that
Great hovercraft example a lot of hot air in the forums as well
Only roll back and suspensions will stop cheats

If you think that collusion is the only problem here, you're not listening. Many voices have been saying loud and clear that there are other issues. Fix the other issues first, and the motivation which led to collusion will disappear.

Originally posted by moonbus
How ratings-based clan rankings would work has been explained several times at length. I don't see an error in your reasoning because there isn't any reasoning there, just blind resistance.

Here's how it is, Padger: you've been driving in the desert in four-wheel-drive vehicles, and because tyre-driven vehicles are prone to getting flats, you always carry ...[text shortened]... urrent system of awarding points, and it would render sandbagging (in all its forms) irrelevant.

The reason I give that this will not work is because of the rating system itself
If you were challenged by a clan that was far beneath your rating would you take it on ?
No! because if you lost you sink down to a level that any other clan would refuse to take a challenge from you
So the result would be stagnation
Every Clan would be so worried to take a challenge from somebody beneath them
You are so convinced of this system you cannot see the disadvantages

Originally posted by moonbus
How ratings-based clan rankings would work has been explained several times at length. I don't see an error in your reasoning because there isn't any reasoning there, just blind resistance.

Here's how it is, Padger: you've been driving in the desert in four-wheel-drive vehicles, and because tyre-driven vehicles are prone to getting flats, you always carry ...[text shortened]... urrent system of awarding points, and it would render sandbagging (in all its forms) irrelevant.

I have to differ with you on the point that the clan rating system has been explained.

I fired off a set of questions to Russ asking for some clarification.

I will only repeat the first question here.

I asked Russ to provide a specific formula to compute the clan rating from challenge to challenge.

That is the first step to understanding how the clan rating will work.

I have a background in mathematics so I do tend to ask for the specifics.

I presume you have read my questions to Russ ?
They are good questions. And they are valid.

I have been open minded on the clan rating system.
Taking a wait and see approach does not constitute closed mindedness.

Originally posted by padger
The reason I give that this will not work is because of the rating system itself
If you were challenged by a clan that was far beneath your rating would you take it on ?
No! because if you lost you sink down to a level that any other clan would refuse to take a challenge from you
So the result would be stagnation
Every Clan would be so worried to take a ...[text shortened]... from somebody beneath them
You are so convinced of this system you cannot see the disadvantages

Exactly !!
Please see my question #4 near the bottom of page 1 of the Sandbagging and Collusion thread.

This hi-lites one of the problem.

A clan rating should be a reflection of the strength of a clan.
Not a metric of a scoring system.

I also predict that under the new regime someone could possibly start up a new clan in September and run off with the clan title.

I could be wrong.
But I don't think anyone can come up with an immediate answer to that.

There are a lot of mechanics to think about here.

Originally posted by moonbus
If you think that collusion is the only problem here, you're not listening. Many voices have been saying loud and clear that there are other issues. Fix the other issues first, and the motivation which led to collusion will disappear.

I got a bridge to sell you in the desert over some luxury swampland too!!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what part about having been explained to you before that you are having trouble with?

How about if someone comes out and says that the explanation doesn't wash.

Hypothetical example.

Clan A plays 30 challenges against several equally rated clans.
And win half of them.
So their rating should be the same after the 30 challenges are complete.

In the mix, they also played 50 challenges against 3 "partners" called clans.
Even with the disincentive, they collect 2 rating points per challenge.
Probably more, but for the sake of argument let's say 2 points per challenge.
2 meagre points per challenge.

So that's 80 challenges in total.
Total rating gain would be 100 points.

That is significant !!

People will be skeptical about the ELO system stopping collusion in it's tracks.

Let's keep up the debate !!