Proposals for change to clan system

1. The bulk number of wins is not a fair measure of a clan’s success, as this favours large clans which play many games at short time limits, to the detriment of smaller clans which play fewer games at longer time limits. Quantity should not be the measure of a clan’s performance. A proposal was mooted which based clan performance on net average rating change. This would level the playing field.

2. To prevent collusion, there should be a maximum number of challenges between any two clans involving the same players, and the max. should be low (2 or 3) -- with the proviso that if two or more clans play more than the max., they may do so but the games played above the max would not affect clan standings.

3. To prevent sandbagging, clan individual ratings should be uncoupled from RHP non-clan individual ratings.

4. There should be a maximum ratings differential between clan challenge opponents. A max., of 200 was suggested.

5. An arbitrary number of clan-games would played with a provisional rating to ascertain a player's true strength, and so long as provisional ratings were in force, a modified formula would be used to calculate the rating rise or drop of opponents of provisionally-rated clan players.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
1. The bulk number of wins is not a fair measure of a clan’s success, as this favours large clans which play many games at short time limits, to the detriment of smaller clans which play fewer games at longer time limits. Quantity should not be the measure of a clan’s performance. A proposal was mooted which based clan performance on net average rati ...[text shortened]... d be used to calculate the rating rise or drop of opponents of provisionally-rated clan players.

Have you clicked on the wrong forum Robbie?
Don't usually see you on here.
If not,well done for applying some serious thought to the clan system.
There's been many suggestions (as I'm sure you know) regarding the clan points system over time.
Russ has tried various things over the years but as with most systems there's always someone who'll find a way to manipulate it to their advantage.
I think one of the core issues is the rating system which affects almost everything on the site.
Most clan leaders agree that a players current rating is meaningless because it can easily be manipulated(sandbagging) and includes timeout statistics.
I know this is a slightly different issue but has some relevance to the points you make.

Originally posted by venda
Have you clicked on the wrong forum Robbie?
Don't usually see you on here.
If not,well done for applying some serious thought to the clan system.
There's been many suggestions (as I'm sure you know) regarding the clan points system over time.
Russ has tried various things over the years but as with most systems there's always someone who'll find a way to ...[text shortened]... stics.
I know this is a slightly different issue but has some relevance to the points you make.

Hi Venda, actually I posted them here so that it does not descend into the usual chaos of the clan forum. They are not my ideas but were proffered by an excellent chap, moonbus. I posted them here in the hope that Russ would read them and think of a way to implement the proposals and if anyone else had any suggestions to make the system reward good chess.

If a members clan rating was their RHP average rating it would solve sandbagging

Originally posted by divegeester
If a members clan rating was their RHP average rating it would solve sandbagging

As would my suggestion to have a dual rating system, one for clan play, another for tournament play, consisting of all non-clan games. This way, no matter how many tourney games you resign after four moves, they never affect the clan rating.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Hi Venda, actually I posted them here so that it does not descend into the usual chaos of the clan forum. They are not my ideas but were proffered by an excellent chap, moonbus. I posted them here in the hope that Russ would read them and think of a way to implement the proposals and if anyone else had any suggestions to make the system reward good chess.

I think you pushing any clan rating system is a joke and you'll only find ways to circumvent them, just as you have found ways now to circumvent the clan rules now.

I think few people would listen to the single most self-serving clan leader on this entire site, and I would imagine that Moonbus wishes that you not speak for his ideas.

You obviously wish the clan system to be dismantled and so no one's going to listen to any plan you propose and you pushing Moonbus' plan is just the last nail in its coffin.

Do him a favor and don't endorse his plan. One might think that you endorse his plan just so that people reject his plan. You don't want to see the clan system improved, because you are already benefiting from insufficient clan rules now.

Originally posted by venda
Most clan leaders agree that a players current rating is meaningless because it can easily be manipulated(sandbagging) and includes timeout statistics.

Yes, I have many timeouts, and I would love, love, LOVE for them to not be counted in my ratings. They skew my real rating here.

I also wouldn't mind if games resigned with less than ten moves and games resigned when the resigner is clearly ahead weren't counted either.

But this is one reason I proposed a dual rating system, too. The vast majority of my timeouts are tournament games. I'd be happy if they didn't affect my clan rating. It might shut people up who accuse me of sandbagging when that was never my intent.

Originally posted by Suzianne
I think you pushing any clan rating system is a joke and you'll only find ways to circumvent them, just as you have found ways now to circumvent the clan rules now.

I think few people would listen to the single most self-serving clan leader on this entire site, and I would imagine that Moonbus wishes that you not speak for his ideas.

You obviously ...[text shortened]... e the clan system improved, because you are already benefiting from insufficient clan rules now.

please do the thread a favour and remove yourself, you are odious and hanging about it like a bad smell. The ideas are good irrespective of who posted them and I would be rather pleased if you kept your negativity to yourself, you are a rather unsavoury prospect at best and I refuse to let the thread be wrecked simply because you are bitter and twisted.