@sonship: The trinity doctrine and salvation

Sonship you play up the trinity in this forum and I have a question for you on it which you have been dodging for months.

If a Christian/person rejects your version of the trinity teaching entirely, does that mean that they are precluded from having the spirit of Christ and if so, does that mean therefore, that they are not saved?

This is a critical and pivotal doctrinal question regarding what you believe.

Originally posted by divegeester
Sonship you play up the trinity in this forum and I have a question for you on it which you have been dodging for months.

If a Christian/person rejects your version of the trinity teaching entirely, does that mean that they are precluded from having the spirit of Christ and if so, does that mean therefore, that they are not saved?

This is a critical and pivotal doctrinal question regarding what you believe.

Sonship, I am assuming you are going to avoid this question, a decision which in itself is very interesting as it highlights your concern about revealing the cult-like nature of your doctrinal orientation around topics such as the nature of the godhead (for want of a better word).

#strangebeliefs

Originally posted by divegeester
Sonship you play up the trinity in this forum and I have a question for you on it which you have been dodging for months.

If a Christian/person rejects your version of the trinity teaching entirely, does that mean that they are precluded from having the spirit of Christ and if so, does that mean therefore, that they are not saved?

This is a critical and pivotal doctrinal question regarding what you believe.

Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved

So what do you reckon is soooooo important about declaring Jesus Lord?

More importantly, what does declaring Jesus Lord mean to you?

Originally posted by whodey
Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved

So what do you reckon is soooooo important about declaring Jesus Lord?

More importantly, what does declaring Jesus Lord mean to you?

What has this got to do with the OP?

Originally posted by divegeester
What has this got to do with the OP?

Saying that Jesus is "Lord" is suggestive to most that this refers to the Trinity. Who else in the Bible is referred to as Lord and why is it so important regarding salvation according to Paul?

Moreover, the verse indicates what is required to have the spirit of God living in you.

Originally posted by whodey
Saying that Jesus is "Lord" is suggestive to most that this refers to the Trinity. Who else in the Bible is referred to as Lord and why is it so important regarding salvation according to Paul?

Moreover, the verse indicates what is required to have the spirit of God living in you.

This is not a thread about the nature of the trinity, this thread is about my premise that sonship adheres to the #strangebelief that believing in the trinity in necessary for salvation.

Do you believe this...yes or no?

Originally posted by divegeester
This is not a thread about the nature of the trinity, this thread is about my premise that sonship adheres to the #strangebelief that believing in the trinity in necessary for salvation.

Do you believe this...yes or no?

Well it seems that Paul is saying that confessing Jesus as the Lord is required to be saved, the question is why?

It is therefore understandable that those who believe Paul to be inspired by God believe that the Trinity teaching is a necessary component to salvation.

I believe that Paul was inspired by God to write this, so I think that the Trinity doctrine is a big deal. As to whom is saved and who is not, I'll leave that to God. 😉

Just out of curiosity, had you ever read that passage before? Also, now that you have read it do you still find it strange that people believe that the Trinity is an important doctrine when it comes to salvation?

Originally posted by whodey
Well it seems that Paul is saying that confessing Jesus as the Lord is required to be saved, the question is why?

It is therefore understandable that those who believe Paul to be inspired by God believe that the Trinity teaching is a necessary component to salvation.

I believe that Paul was inspired by God to write this, so I think that the Trinity doct ...[text shortened]... trange that people believe that the Trinity is an important doctrine when it comes to salvation?

You are just dodging the issue which is: is believing in the doctrine of the trinity necessary for salvation? It is a yes or no answer.

All this waffle about it "being important" for salvation is just you displaying your own uncertainty. Furthermore Paul being inspired by God is in no way relevant to the question because we both believe he was inspired by god and we clearly disagree on the trinity, so please try not to obfuscate and stick to the point succinctly.

Over to you.

Originally posted by divegeester
You are just dodging the issue which is: is believing in the doctrine of the trinity necessary for salvation? It is a yes or no answer.

All this waffle about it "being important" for salvation is just you displaying your own uncertainty. Furthermore Paul being inspired by God is in no way relevant to the question because we both believe he was inspir ...[text shortened]... the trinity, so please try not to obfuscate and stick to the point succinctly.

Over to you.

Wut?

So Paul was inspired by God and he wrote that Jesus was Lord but you still don't believe that Jesus is part of the Trinity?

Why do you think Paul insists we confess Jesus as "Lord" then?

Is not Lord a term to denote God?

Originally posted by whodey
Wut?

So Paul was inspired by God and he wrote that Jesus was Lord but you still don't believe that Jesus is part of the Trinity?

Why do you think Paul insists we confess Jesus as "Lord" then?

Is not Lord a term to denote God?

I am not a trinitarian; pretending you do not know this is dishonest whodey. I am if anything, a believer in the oneness of God. That includes the deity of Christ.

So, is believing in the trinity teaching a requirement for salvation or not? It's quite interesting that you cannot answer, sonship cannot answer, can no trinitarian stand up and answer me??

Originally posted by divegeester
I am not a trinitarian; pretending you do not know this is dishonest whodey. I am if anything, a believer in the oneness of God. That includes the deity of Christ.

So, is believing in the trinity teaching a requirement for salvation or not? It's quite interesting that you cannot answer, sonship cannot answer, can no trinitarian stand up and answer me??

And you pretending to not know that trinitarians are also monotheistic is at least disingenuous, if not outright dishonest.

I wouldn't go so far as to advise that "believing in the Trinity" is a "requirement" for salvation. I would imagine that one could be a devout Christian without understanding and accepting the Trinity concept, but it seems unlikely, unless one was a new Christian who hasn't been exposed to it. The idea of a Triune God is pretty basic stuff.

I suppose it is also possible that this Christian could also be simply misinformed about what the Trinity means, or is stubborn, or even possibly has some stick up their bum about the deity of Christ, like the JWs.

"I am, if anything, a believer in the oneness of God. That includes the deity of Christ."

If you believe that Christ is man AND God, and you believe in ONE God, then I am willing to bet my dollars to your donuts that you believe in the Trinity. This seems obvious. If you say you don't, then the only answer must be that you have some sort of obsessive problem with the word "Trinity" itself, or that you just do not understand what the "Trinity" concept actually means.

Originally posted by divegeester
I am not a trinitarian; pretending you do not know this is dishonest whodey. I am if anything, a believer in the oneness of God. That includes the deity of Christ.

So, is believing in the trinity teaching a requirement for salvation or not? It's quite interesting that you cannot answer, sonship cannot answer, can no trinitarian stand up and answer me??

Why address me? Why not address the scripture I provided?

You obviously have no respect for me, but you seem to have respect for the writings of Paul.

Why not elaborate?

As Suzy pointed out, to suggest that those who do believe in the Trinity do not also believe in the oneness of God is what is dishonest.

Originally posted by whodey
Why address me? Why not address the scripture I provided?

You obviously have no respect for me, but you seem to have respect for the writings of Paul.

Why not elaborate?

As Suzy pointed out, to suggest that those who do believe in the Trinity do not also believe in the oneness of God is what is dishonest.

The scriptures you quoted have no relevance whatsoever to my OP. I believe in the deity of Christ, this is not the issue.

So are you going to say whether or not you believe that accepting the trinity doctrine is nescessary for salvation, or not?

Originally posted by Suzianne
And you pretending to not know that trinitarians are also monotheistic is at least disingenuous, if not outright dishonest.

I wouldn't go so far as to advise that "believing in the Trinity" is a "requirement" for salvation. I would imagine that one could be a devout Christian without understanding and accepting the Trinity concept, but it seems unlikely ...[text shortened]... "Trinity" itself, or that you just do not understand what the "Trinity" concept actually means.

We've been here before. I absolutely do not accept that there are three people in the godhead. The teaching is eroneous and in fact pagan in origin. The Lord is ONE, not THREE. This is categorically stated dozens of times in scripture. Hear oh Israel, the Lord you god is ONE.

Nevertheless thank you for at least answering the question, that in your opinion, believing in the trinity teaching is NOT a prerequisite for salvation.

Originally posted by divegeester
We've been here before. I absolutely do not accept that there are three people in the godhead. The teaching is eroneous and in fact pagan in origin. The Lord is ONE, not THREE. This is categorically stated dozens of times in scripture. Hear oh Israel, the Lord you god is ONE.

Nevertheless thank you for at least answering the question, that in your opinion, believing in the trinity teaching is NOT a prerequisite for salvation.

1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity.

https://gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html