Intelligent? Design

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
So atheist war hero Fred is going to hell.

Gotcha.

To be very clear the vast majority of us are going to Hell, even those nicer than the hero
Fred.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]Intelligent Design as a scientific theory is SATISFIED at the point of acknowledging that some biological systems have a greater probability of being intelligently designed.

Could you name a biological system or two and lay out the math which demonstrates that these biological system's 'have a greater probability of being intelligently designed'?[/b]

Could you name a biological system or two and lay out the math which demonstrates that these biological system's 'have a greater probability of being intelligently designed'?

I might give you something to think on. I probably could not without strenuous objections from various quarters. Let me think about it without obligating myself here to write a book.

Could you describe the very first instance of natural selection ?

Proper Knob asks

Could you name a biological system or two and lay out the math which demonstrates that these biological system's 'have a greater probability of being intelligently designed'?

I would recommend you take a look at a book by MIT physicist Gerald L. Schroeder called "The Science of God".

I would suggest you read chapter 8 entitled - " The Watchmaker and the Watch: Concerning the Statistical Probability of Chimps and Human Evolution by Random Mutations from a Common Ancestor" .

I would suggest that you read the chapter from Schroeder himself before you consult some article claiming to offer rebuttal. After reading the chapter, I would not mind if you went to get a second or third opinion on it.

I would have to go over it again as it is rather detailed and dense. The previous chapter 7, "Evolution: Statistics Versus Random Mutations" discusses these matters also.

Originally posted by KellyJay
To be very clear the vast majority of us are going to Hell, even those nicer than the hero
Fred.

And yet you believe are not going to "hell", despite your "evil" ~ because you believe Jesus has "forgiven" you, right?

Originally posted by KellyJay
To be very clear the vast majority of us are going to Hell, even those nicer than the hero
Fred.

To be very clear, even if I was a Christian, I would not believe that.

And yes, I have studied the same scripture you have.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
To be very clear, even if I was a Christian, I would not believe that.

And yes, I have studied the same scripture you have.

If you were a Christian would you interpret this scripture to mean most people are going to Heaven? "Narrow is the way that leads to life, and few there are who find it."

Originally posted by KellyJay
To be very clear the vast majority of us are going to Hell, even those nicer than the hero
Fred.

I wasn't asking about what will happen to the vast majority, or Fred indeed.

I was asking about whether you would be comfortable living for eternity in paradise knowing that your own child was being tortured for all eternity, whilst singing the praises of the being that could bring an end to his/her suffering but chooses not to.

I can't think of a more awful prospect than this. It is utterly repugnant, and anyone who wishes for this, or can even tolerate the prospect of this, seems to me to have lost any sense of empathy, compassion or morality. To be an agent of such a creature simply makes it worse.

As you have accepted that we are all sinners, and sinners go to hell, it must therefore be a realistic prospect from the standpoint of your theology.

How on earth can you face such a prospect?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If you were a Christian would you interpret this scripture to mean most people are going to Heaven? "Narrow is the way that leads to life, and few there are who find it."

Ah okay, we're trading biblical quotes:

'The Great Multitude in White Robes' Revelation 7:4-9'

'After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.'

Interpret away sir.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
To be very clear, even if I was a Christian, I would not believe that.

And yes, I have studied the same scripture you have.

What does this scripture mean to you, feel free to look it up in context.

Matthew 7:14
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Not to worry, because there is no after life, no one is going to hell!

Originally posted by Rank outsider
I wasn't asking about what will happen to the vast majority, or Fred indeed.

I was asking about whether you would be comfortable living for eternity in paradise knowing that your own child was being tortured for all eternity, whilst singing the praises of the being that could bring an end to his/her suffering but chooses not to.

I can't think of ...[text shortened]... c prospect from the standpoint of your theology.

How on earth can you face such a prospect?

No not comfortable not even a little bit, that is not however the measure of truth, that I like
all doctrine, that I think it is warm and fuzzy and so on. I do not search for truth by picking
those things I like and dislike. When the time comes on judgment day every thing will be
revealed for what it is, all of our thoughts and deeds along with our words and we as
witnesses will see it all as is, and I believe once that is done our judgment including yours
will be what God does will be just.

Originally posted by Rank outsider
I wasn't asking about what will happen to the vast majority, or Fred indeed.

I was asking about whether you would be comfortable living for eternity in paradise knowing that your own child was being tortured for all eternity, whilst singing the praises of the being that could bring an end to his/her suffering but chooses not to.

I can't think of ...[text shortened]... c prospect from the standpoint of your theology.

How on earth can you face such a prospect?

I face this prospect realizing that although we are sinners Christ has given His life for all of
us, that each of us no matter how bad we are can be saved by the grace of God. That
Jesus deserves us because of His sacrifice for us, so I don't look at the one next to me to
see if he is just enough for me to make the effort, I look at Jesus and see I should make
the effort to share because of what He has done.

I also look at this world as if it were the sinking ship Titanic and Jesus is the one life raft
that can save us all. The ship is doing down into freezing water that will kill us, as our lives
will end and we stand before God in our sins. The great difference Jesus took all of our
sins upon Himself so we can be saved unlike a life raft. So when people belittle Him they
belittle the one that made it possible for any of us to be redeemed, without Him we can do
nothing.

Originally posted by KellyJay
What does this scripture mean to you, feel free to look it up in context.

Matthew 7:14
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

As posted above.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I face this prospect realizing that although we are sinners Christ has given His life for all of
us, that each of us no matter how bad we are can be saved by the grace of God. That
Jesus deserves us because of His sacrifice for us, so I don't look at the one next to me to
see if he is just enough for me to make the effort, I look at Jesus and see I shoul ...[text shortened]... ttle the one that made it possible for any of us to be redeemed, without Him we can do
nothing.

Except, like the Titanic, the chances of getting into the raft is more likely for some than others.

So you, most likely born into the Christian faith, and certainly in a predominantly Christian country, are like the first class passengers.

But if you had been born in Pakistan to Muslim parents, you would be more like steerage.

Originally posted by Rank outsider
Except, like the Titanic, the chances of getting into the raft is more likely for some than others.

So you, most likely born into the Christian faith, and certainly in a predominantly Christian country, are like the first class passengers.

But if you had been born in Pakistan to Muslim parents, you would be more like steerage.

It is who so ever wills, if you will you can turn to Christ the location or history will not stop
anyone who wants Jesus to receive Him.