The Triune God in John 16

Originally posted by chaney3
Verse 18 seems to make clear that Jesus and God are 2 completely different entities, of which....only God is good. No trinity there.

Verse 18 seems to make clear that Jesus and God are 2 completely different entities, of which....only God is good. No trinity there.

Then Jesus is not "the Good Shepherd"? (John 10:11)

"I am the good Shepherd; the good Shepherd lays down His life for the sheep." (John 10:11)

Oops. Not quite the slam dunk you thought it would be? Maybe?

Originally posted by sonship
Where are we told to "emulate" Jesus ?

Incidently, that book I quoted, [b]The Judgment Seat of Christ was by D.M. Panton not Robert Govette. Some may care.[/b]

You dont like what Christ said about the Holy Spirit .. I get that.
You also dont like when Christ said to follow Him as well.

Actually it is shocking that a Christian can ask : "Where are we told to "emulate" Jesus ?

It is no wonder your doctrine is so way off the teachings of Christ.

Originally posted by sonship

Verse 18 seems to make clear that Jesus and God are 2 completely different entities, of which....only God is good. No trinity there.

Then Jesus is not [b]"the Good Shepherd"? (John 10:11)

"I am the good Shepherd; the good Shepherd lays down His life for the sheep." (John 10:11)

Oops. Not quite the slam dunk you thought it would be? Maybe?[/b]

Do you think this verse contradicts Mark 10:18?

How can they both be correct at the same time?

Originally posted by chaney3
Do you think this verse contradicts Mark 10:18?

How can they both be correct at the same time?

No, I do not at all think Jesus was contradicting Himself between calling Himself " the good Shepherd " and teaching "none is God but God alone."

A paradox is there in the comparison but not a contradiction. And I think Jesus, who knew the young man's heart, was touching a bit that He, Jesus, was the incarnation of God in a man.

IE. If you are willing to call Me good, then you should be ready to call Me God as a man. None is good except God.

If He meant that He as a man could not possibly be good, He would not have called Himself - "the good Shepherd".

I think though the great blessing comes with just saying AMEN! to whatever the Word of God says. And this I elaborated considerably and demonstrated in my thread on Prayreading the Word.

It is certainly not the case that I would demand of every newcomer to the Gospel of Mark 10:18 to be able to see in exactly as I have expounded it.

I have some other things to say about "the good Shepherd' in John 10 which indicate that this "good Shepherd" is in fact also God.

Would you like me to share that with you ?

The good Shepherd in John 10 is not only good, but He is God.

I propose to prove this briefly by two facts.

1.) God was called the Shepherd of His people in the Old Testament.

" Jehovah is my shepherd, I shall not want." (Psalm 23:1)

God is the shepherd of created man.

"Know that it is Jehovah who is God. It is He who has made us and not we ourselves. We are his people and the sheep of His pasture." (Psalm 100:3)

I submit that for Jesus to say He is "the good Shepherd" is for Him to indicate that He is the incarnation of God in a man.

My second point is that Jesus as God shepherd the people IN to the sheepfold from one end of time and shepherd the people OUT of the sheepfold from the other end. As God in the Old Testament He shepherded the people into Judaism. As the of God He shepherds people OUT of Judaism and into the new covenant church.

Can you see this ?
The people go IN to the Old Testament sheepfold of Judaism by the Shepherd Jehovah. And in the New Testament Jehovah incarnated, the same good Shepherd leads them OUT of the old covenant into the new covenant.

Therefore Jesus said that He was also the DOOR as this Shepherd and His people would go in and go out.

"I am the door, if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved and shall go in and go out and shall find pasture." (John 10:9)

Christ is not only the door for God's elect to enter into the custody of Judaism's law, where Moses, David, Isaiah, and Jeremiah were before Christ came. But after the Old Testament Christ is Jehovah incarnated as the man Jesus to be the door for people like Peter, John, James, and Paul to come OUT of Judaism's fold of the law to the pasture of the new covenant experience of Christ indwelling them.

He is Jehovah God as the door IN to the fold of the law of Moses.
And He is Jesus, Jehovah God incarnated to be the door OUT of the fold into the new covenant.

In this way Jesus said He is the door as well as the Shepherd and men shall go in and out and find pasture to eat and be nourished as God's sheep.

' I am the door; if anyone entrs t hrough me, he shall be saved and shall go in and go out and shall find pasture.

The thief does not come except to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life and may have it abundantly." (vs.9,10)

This chapter shows Jesus is not only good as the good Shepherd (and none is good except God alone), but that He is the way into the Old Covenant and the way out of the Old Covenant into the New Covenant. Those the saved may go in and out and find feeding pasture by the leadership of this good Shepherd.

In this chapter Jesus says He and His Father are one:

" I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)

Originally posted by divegeester
I reject the trinity doctrine; is my salvation in any way in jeopardy because of this?

No because the Bible doesn't say anywhere that you or anyone must worship a trinity.
As we all know well, the word trinity and the idea of the trinity are not in the Bible.
In the Encyclopedia Americana it states,"Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism ws strictly Unitarian (believing that God is one person).....Fourth Century trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was on the contrary a deviation from this teaching."

Originally posted by roigam
No because the Bible doesn't say anywhere that you or anyone must worship a trinity.
As we all know well, the word trinity and the idea of the trinity are not in the Bible.
In the Encyclopedia Americana it states,"Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism ws strictly Unitarian (believing that God is one person).....Fourth Century trinitarianism did not ...[text shortened]... an teaching regarding the nature of God; it was on the contrary a deviation from this teaching."

I wish you would engage as directly as this with posts I actually direct at you. 😉

Originally posted by roigam

No because the Bible doesn't say anywhere that you or anyone must worship a trinity. As we all know well, the word trinity and the idea of the trinity are not in the Bible.

The Father seeks worship.

" But an hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truthfulness, for the Father also seeks such to worship Him." (John 4:23)

The Father is worshipped.

The Son is worshipped.

" And when He brings again the Firstborn into the inhabited earth, He says, And let all the angels of God worship Him." (Hebrews 1:6)

The Son worshipped by the angels only ? He is worshipped by man also:

Worshipped by a healed leper -

" And behold, a leper, coming near worshipped Him, saying, Lord, if You are willing, You can cleanse me." (Matt. 8:2)

Worshipped by a ruler -

"As He was speaking these things to them, behold, a ruler came and worshipped Him, saying, My daughter has just died, but come and lay Your hand on her, and she will live." (Matt. 9:18)

Worshipped by His disciples after He calms the storm -

" And those who were in the boat worshipped Him, saying, Truly You are the Son of God." (Matt. 14:33)

Worshipped by the Canaanite women -

" But she came and worshipped Him, saying, Lord help me!" (Matt. 15:25)

Worshipped by His disciples after His resurrection in giving the great commission -

" And when they saw Him, they worshipped Him, though some doubted. And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All authority has been given to Me in haven and on earth. Go therefore and disciple all nations ..." (Matt. 28:17-19a)

Father and Son with the Spirit worshipped by all creation -

" And I saw in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures and in the midst of the elders a Lamb standing as having just been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth." (Rev. 5:6)

" And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea and all things in them, I heard saying, To Him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever.

And the four living creatures said, Amen. And the elders fell down and worshipped." (Rev. 5:13,14)

The Triune God is worshipped.

Jesus. Jesus Christ.