The Triune God in Revelation 4&5

Originally posted by sonship

You really believe that don't you?
You actually believe that you posting all this stuff over multiple threads, which I would bet no one has read in its entirety, is you providing "revelation".
What a pious , self-assured, mistaken person you are.

I believe that I am talking about revelation because the New Testament itself speaks of ...[text shortened]... the same mystery there - the Father - Son - Holy Spirit.

And sure, I write a lot about this.

I'm too scared to reply now.

Originally posted by divegeester
I'm too scared to reply now.

Jesus loves you.

Reading ? Good.

Now there are some things which I really should apologize for. The connection of Revelation to Zechariah really needs much more time and space to clarify.

I did not take the time and space to draw up the backround. So all this about the Lamb with seven eyes compared to the stone with seven eyes probably baffles most readers.

Even the thought that Revelation might be similar to Zechariah may be strange to some.

But there is very little absolutely NEW in the bool of Revelation To get into interpreting Revelation you must give heed to how certain words and symbols were used before in the Bible. How they were used before is an important KEY to see what their meaning should be in the book of Revelation .

God's intention is to produce in the universe a building. It is not a building of material stones. It is a building in which God is built into man and man is built up with one another.

The church is this building. The new Jerusalem is the enlarged same building, containing both the Old Testament saints and the New Testament saints.

The foundation stone of this building is Jesus Christ.
The cornerstone of this building is Jesus Christ.
And the topstone of this building is Jesus Christ.

In Zechariah we see a vision of a stone with seven eyes.
In Revelation we see a Lamb with seven eyes.

In both cases the seven eyes are sent forth into the earth.

Jesus Christ is the Redeemer Who accomplishes eternal redemption for God's building. Jesus Christ is also the foundation stone as the Son of God, the cornerstone joining the two walls of the Jews and the Gentiles, and the topstone finishing off the completion of the building of God.

The eyes of Jehovah sent forth into the earth seek to glorify Jehovah God. Nothing will vindicate God so much in this universe as the building up of the church and the New Jerusalem. He seeks men who are opened to His plan. He seeks them throughout the earth diligently as the eyes of Jehovah God.

Compare these passages:

Second Chronicles 16:9a

" For the eyes of Jehovah run to and fro throughout all the earth to strengthen those whose heart is perfect toward Him."

Zechariah 4:10

"For who has despised the day of small things? For these seven rejoice when they see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel; they are the eyes of Jehovah running to and fro on the whole earth."

Revelation 5:6

"And I saw in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures and in the midst of the elders a Lamb standing as having just been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes,

which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth."

Originally posted by divegeester

What a pious , self-assured, mistaken person you are.

Alright! Alright! I'll take it to the Lord in prayer and confession.

Do you see now how the seven Spirits before God's throne is the eternal Spirit of God and that they become the seven eyes of the Lamb in the next chapter?

This is symbolism. And here is plain teaching to confirm the same -

"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

What we see in extravagant signs and symbolism we are plainly TAUGHT in the epistle of Paul. Christ is made available to all the earth. He is the Spirit of God. Yet He has become compounded with His humanity into that eternal Spirit ever since His incarnation, human living, crucifixion, and exaltation.

His EYES are the eternal Spirit, the Third of the Father and Son and Holy Spirit.

John, in his salutation, looking back on all that he saw in the vision - RANKS the seven Spirits of God along with the Father and the Son.

"John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace to you and peace

from Him who is and who was and who is coming,

and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne ( see 4:5)

and from Jesus Christ, the faithful Witness, the Firstborn of the dead, and the Ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and has released us from our sins by His blood." (Rev. 1:4,5)

Originally posted by sonship
Jesus loves you.

So do the moderators 😛

Originally posted by divegeester
So do the moderators 😛

Judas!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Judas!

Bell-end.

There is much more in Revelation 4&5.

Now the angel referred John to the Lion of the tribe of Judah. But when John looked he saw the Lamb.

To the angel Christ was the Lion.
To John Christ was the Lamb.

Christ is the Lion - Lamb.

Since the Lamb is usually easier to understand for Christians, let me say a word about the Lion of the tribe of Judah referring back to Jacob's blessing on his twelve sons, specifically (Genesis 49:8-10)

"Judah is a young lion; From the prey, my son, you have gone up.
He couches, he stretches out like a lion, and like a lioness; who will rouse him up. The scepter will not depart from Judah, Nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, Until Shiloh come." (Gen. 49:9,10)

Judah is the tribe that will produce a Messianic King Who will bring in peace and justice.

The whole Bible has Christ as its center. So this blessing tells us something about Christ as well. Jesus grabbed Satan, so to speak, by the neck to destroy him. This is the imagery of a lion ruthlessly vanquishing its prey by seizing it in its teeth.

The "young lion" is a symbol of Christ in His freshness and strength for fighting. Satan, God's enemy, is seized by the strong Christ as a lion seizes its prey.

This lion has gone up from the prey. The imagery here is of a hunting lion descending from some higher place, ie. from a mountain, to seize its victim. After the lion has killed the prey the lion goes up again bringing to the mountain to devour it.

The imagery is of Jesus Christ coming down from heaven to thoroughly vanquish Satan. Instead of His cross being a defeat it was a triumphant victory over Satan. Then after seizing Satan to defeat him in His redemptive and Satan destroying death, Christ ascended back up to heaven to sit at the right hand of God.

The ascended Christ is depicted as a victorious lion crouching to enjoy the killed prey.

"From the prey, my son, you have gone up. He couches, he stretches out like a lion.

Then the imagery changes to a female lioness because Christ produced many sons of God in His resurrection.

"And like a lioness; who will rouse him up ? "

The Lion of the tribe of Judah seen by the angel speaks of Christ as the vanquisher of Satan, which was done also for the angels. Satan, a former archangel, was a big problem to the other angels.

The Messiah out of the tribe of Judah, is the Lion that destroys Satan and ascends to the heights to produce "cubs" of other victorious lions - His overcoming Christians who live in victory over the vanquished foe.

Originally posted by divegeester
I do recognise that possibility but I dismiss it because in my opinion the weight of specific scripture indicating "newness" is overwhelmingly more that that of of some kind of symbolic refreshing and cleansing.

When it comes to the theme of creation there is a lot of examples from related areas in the bible which we can use as "types" e.g.
- If any ...[text shortened]... ) into the equation then I'd be interested to here why, specifically, the old earth will remain.

Finally got back to this interesting line of thought.
The reason the old earth will stay is because this is where God's son walked
and preached and gave up his life for us.
It is where the rebellion started in the Grden of Eden by Satan and man has
been resolved and it will be a touchstone for all eternity for any who would try to
follow the same unsuccessful path.
This old earth has become a memorial of Jehovah God's conquering evil.
This old earth will be cleaned up and it will stand as a guarentee that no further rebellion need be tolerated.
The cleanup is in process!
I'm going to watch and give thanks.

btw, what happened to GB? haven't heard anything from him lately.
He hasn't given up on this forum, has he?

Originally posted by roigam

Finally got back to this interesting line of thought.

It is interesting to you because as a Jehovah's Witness you think very little to nothing about man being changed from within by God. You only think about the OUTWARD environment - a happy world.

Only the objective OUTWARD happy environment is "interesting" to your religion.

The reason the old earth will stay is because this is where God's son walked
and preached and gave up his life for us.

Here again - "God's son ... gave up his life for us" is mainly completely objective and outward.

Forgiveness + a happy environment. This is interesting to you because you know little to nothing about God indwelling man for a life union of God and humanity.

You don't believe that Jesus Christ was a life union of God and humanity. You believe Christ was an angel Michael. This too is pretty much just objective and outward.

You know nothing about the mingling of divinity and humanity in Christ and how He came to reproduce that mingling in those whom He saves.

" Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone; but if it dies it bears much fruit." (John 12:24)

I know you have no EAR for this and that you are bored already with too much writing. So I stop here. But this is about Christ DUPLICATING in a real sense WHAT He is and WHAT He had concealed within Him - the divine life of His Father.

You only care about a happy planet. God's eternal plan though is to dispense His life into man. That is not interesting to you because you care nothing for God's economy besides God providing a good place to live outwardly, objectively.

It is where the rebellion started in the Grden of Eden by Satan and man has
been resolved and it will be a touchstone for all eternity for any who would try to
follow the same unsuccessful path.

The rebellion really started before the garden in Genesis.

This old earth has become a memorial of Jehovah God's conquering evil.
This old earth will be cleaned up and it will stand as a guarentee that no further rebellion need be tolerated.

You don't understand that the two trees - the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil stand for man being united to one of two sources: - God as eternal indwelling life or Satan as a parasitic attachment to man as a host.

Christ as the reality of "the tree of life" is all about God being dispensed INTO man to be "organically" one with man to produce not a "good man" but a God-man.

Everything you learn at the Kingdom Hall is all about OUTWARD and OBJECTIVE things. They know NOTHING about God being dispensed into man as life.

So your chief interest is the OUTWARD environment for an outward "kingdom" on a happy earth.

The cleanup is in process!

Yes, you can talk about an outward cleaning up of the material earth. You cannot talk about the work of God being dispensed into man inwardly for transformation.

I am not saying that there is no clearing up of the earth. i am saying that is all SECONDARY to God being dispensed into man. And this you know nothing about and are not interested in hearing about.

I'm going to watch and give thanks.

if you do not get saved you'll be watching from inside the lake of fire.
You need to ask Christ (not an angel) to come INTO your heart to be your INDWELLING Lord and Savior.

Did you not pay attention ?? It is Christ IN YOU that is the hope of glory.

" To whom God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory." (Col .2:27)

You better throw open the padlocked heart and invite Christ to come INTO you cleansing you immediately of all that is going to perish when John sees a new heaven and a new earth -

" And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And i saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." (Rev. 21:1,2)

You have to ask God to prepare you to MARRY the God-man Christ - matching Him, corresponding to Him and what He IS - the mingling of God and man. This is intensely an inward matter for your being and mine too.

Originally posted by sonship

The cleanup is in process!

Yes, you can talk about an outward cleaning up of the material earth. You cannot talk about the work of God being dispensed into man inwardly for transformation.

I am not saying that there is no clearing up of the earth. i am saying that is all SECONDARY to God being dispensed into man. And this you know no ...[text shortened]... S - the mingling of God and man. This is intensely an inward matter for your being and mine too.

I would be very caareful about who you let in.
Satan has also been known to put his spirit in people.

The Bible says we must put on the new personality.
It also talks about washing our robes in the blood of the lamb.
The things you are referring to are true to an extent but they
apply primarily to a chosen class and only by extension to
the rest of faithful mankind.
Once you make that distinction, you'll be ok.
Won't it be wonderful to see a beautiful paradise earth with a perfect human
society living in peace and praising God for His creaion?
That will be accomplished by God's Kingdom through His firstborn son Christ Jesus!

btw you were right about the word besides.
that's wht I get for relying on my memory
instead of making sure of the verse.
evenso, only Jehovah and the savoir He provides are mentioned in the verse.
There is no mention of a 3rd person that would support a trinity.
I can admit a mistake, can you?