What is God to you? (Believers only)

Originally posted by Rajk999
I guess you have no supporting evidence which can back up your your claim that the Bride of Christ is the Christian saints.

If you have please present it .. just the passages would do.

The fact is you have passages that you need to twist and to explain in the language of Watchman Lee. The Bible can speak for itself and does not need lengthy explanation, unless your motive is twisting.

One question. Who is Watchman Lee ?

I am tempted to make a new thread just to answer your charges on this matter of Revelation 19 and the Bride.

Originally posted by sonship
One question. Who is Watchman Lee ?

I am tempted to make a new thread just to answer your charges on this matter of Revelation 19 and the Bride.

If you need to start a new thread then you are planning on some very long posts of mumbo jumbo, and therefore false doctrines.

I provided some very clear passages from John, Paul and Christ about the nature of the saints. Clearly they are the BODY OF CHRIST, NOT the Bride of the Lamb. The New Jerusalem is the Bride of the Lamb.

Originally posted by divegeester
The reality of God is often experienced through a sense of spiritual companionship during times of trouble.

God is a "get out of jail free" card?

Originally posted by NoEarthlyReason
Is God 'Mercy, Pity, Peace and Love' as Blake wrote? Or do you have perhaps a different conception of God – do you picture a person you love or have loved and lost, or is your God even a violent God, or flawed in other ways?

God is love.

Now what is love? That question is what opens the can of worms. 😉

Rajk999's criticism:

You are mistaken .. again. The wife of the Lamb is the New Jerusalem.:

I never said the New Jerusalem was NOT the Wife or Bride of the Lamb. I never negated that fact.

And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, (Rev 21:9-10)

This scene is of something AFTER the 1,000 millennial kingdom. It is in the age of a completely renewed universe.

" And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and the sea was not more." (Rev. 21:1)

But the scene of Revelation 19 is STILL in the age of the old heaven and the old earth. And there we are told that the Wife and Bride of Christ has made herself ready ---- BEFORE the time of Revelation 21.

At least SOME overcomers have taken the lead to be the Bride to come with Christ to defeat Antichrist at Armegeddon. Before chapter 21 and 22 chapter 19 says:

" Let us rejoice and exult, and let is give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His bride has made herself ready." (19:6)

Rajk999 doesn't understand the principle of the overcomers. He doesn't understand that a remnant of overcoming believers do not WAIT until the end of the millennium to be ready to be Christ's Wife.

Rajk999 rightly points to the end of the millennium to show the FULL New Jerusalem as Christ's Bride in chapter 21. But he is completely ignorant that the overcomers arrive to be that Bride in her smaller numerical form by the time of the battle of Armegeddon.

He fails to notice the seven promises to those who overcome given in the seven letters to the seven local churches in Revelation 2 and 3.

What did the angel show John? Christians? The church? NO .. He showed John the the New Jerusalem. - wife of the Lamb.

Not sure what he means here or its relevance. In chapter 19 the Wife and Bride of the Lamb has prepared herself to marry Christ BEFORE He descends to do battle at Armegeddon.

In fact the bridal garment in verse 8 is exactly the fighting armor of verse 14 when they come down with Christ.

Compare:

"And it was given her that she should be clothed in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteousnesses [sic] of the saints." (19:8)

"And the armies which are in heaven followed Him on white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean." (19:14)

This shows that the Brides wedding garment is also her fighting armor. The fine linen, clean and bright and white is the righteousnesses of the believers.

The word RIGHTEOUSNESSES though awkward sounding in English, is the righteous DEEDS of the saints. That is the plural righteous deeds or righteous living of the saints.

The Bride has prepared herself not just by having a righteous standing in justification. But she has prepared herself with righteous deeds out from righteous living.

What qualifies these overcomers to be Christ's bride at the wedding feast is also what qualifies them to be Christ's armies as He descends to the earth to smite Antichrist.

The bottom line is that the Wife and Bride is NOT totally postponed until chapter 21 AFTER the 1,000 years. The overcomers participate in the Bride and Wife in the end of the church age, are raptured, and accompany Christ down to defeat Antichrist.

This chapter 19 is of wedding feasting and battle before the beginning of the millennial kingdom of 1,000 years.

A careful analysis will likely boggle Rajk999's head or cause him to whine that it is not simple enough.

Christians are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb Yes. To get married to Christ NO!!

Yes.

Will all Christians arrive on time or will they arrive late. That is the issue.
Those who arrive at the normal appointed time are called the overcomers.
Those who are late join the overcomers after a certain period.

That is why you have the Bride and Wife in chapter 19 as overcomers and the Bride and Wife as ALL the redeemed throughout all ages in chapters 21 and 22.

Christians are the BODY OF CHRIST - NOT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

I never denied that Christians form the Body of Christ.
And Ephesians 5:23-32 equates Christ's body to Christ's wife.

Go read it. Pay particular attention to these words:

"In the same way the husbands also ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his own wife loves himself." (v.28)

So the dichotomy you wish to establish that the Wife is not the Body is wrong.

"For a husband is head of the wife as also Christ is Head of the church, He Himself is the Savior of the Body." ( v.23)

So your criticism is full of ignorance. "Unstable" and "unlearned" is what Peter wrote about your kind of criticism.

By the way Rajk999, your criticism about about the human spirit, which you bailed out of, failed miserably there also.

Did you think I wouldn't notice that your mouth was shut by a clear presentation of the New Testament on the matter ?

Who is Watchman Lee Rajk999?
Or are you too cowardly to admit that you erroneously joined two names together ?

Writing too fast leads to mumbo jumbo, yours.

Too proud to say you made a mistake ?
You are making more serious mistakes on Revelation 19 and 21 and Ephesians 5.

Originally posted by sonship
By the way Rajk999, your criticism about about the human spirit, which you bailed out of, failed miserably there also.

Did you think I wouldn't notice that your mouth was shut by a clear presentation of the New Testament on the matter ?

My silence does not mean you had a clear presentation. It simply means that I decided to leave you in your ignorance, much the way Christ did to the Pharisees.

Originally posted by sonship
Who is Watchman Lee Rajk999?
Or are you too cowardly to admit that you erroneously joined two names together ?

Writing too fast leads to mumbo jumbo, yours.

Too proud to say you made a mistake ?
You are making more serious mistakes on Revelation 19 and 21 and [b]Ephesians 5.[/b]

Who cares about Watchman Lee? What is the point?

Originally posted by sonship

Christians are the BODY OF CHRIST - NOT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

I never denied that Christians form the Body of Christ.
And [b]Ephesians 5:23-32 equates Christ's body to Christ's wife.

Go read it. Pay particular attention to these words:

[quote] "In the same way the husbands also ought to love their own wives as their own bod ...[text shortened]... full of ignorance. "Unstable" and "unlearned" is what Peter wrote about your kind of criticism.

Love = marriage ? Since when?

Love = Wife? How?

Christ loved the church and gave His life for the church. End of story.

You are adding that part about the church being the bride of the Lamb.

These simple common sense issues derail your doctrine and you go astray.

Originally posted by sonship
Who is Watchman Lee Rajk999?
Or are you too cowardly to admit that you erroneously joined two names together ?

Writing too fast leads to mumbo jumbo, yours.

Too proud to say you made a mistake ?
You are making more serious mistakes on Revelation 19 and 21 and [b]Ephesians 5.[/b]

Here is the Killer passage that puts an end to your nonsensical doctrine:

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)

The Spirit and the Bride are addressing the saints:

The Spirit is Christ.
The Bride is the New Jerusalem.

Both are calling to the saints of Christ for them to COME AND DRINK OF THE LIVING, HEALING WATER of NEW JERUSALEM.

Is the Bride calling to herself ? 😀

Your are a comedian pal.

Originally posted by Rajk999
My silence does not mean you had a clear presentation. It simply means that I decided to leave you in your ignorance, much the way Christ did to the Pharisees.

Your silence means that you were left in your ignorance.
The same things is likely to happen in this exchange.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Who cares about Watchman Lee? What is the point?

You brought up the name in this thread, not me.
You must have cared, yet not enough to get a person's name correct.

Love = marriage ? Since when?

I have no idea what this stupid two sentences has to do with it.
Ephesians 5 is talking about husbands and wives and comparing it to Christ and the church.

Love = Wife? How?

I don't know what this equation has to do with anything.
Ephesians 5 is talking about the wife of Christ as the body of Christ which he cherishes.

Christ loved the church and gave His life for the church. End of story.

Nothing here whatsoever saves you from your ERROR. That is that the wife of Christ is mentioned before the age of the new heaven and new earth with the New Jerusalem.

Chapter 19 precedes chapter 21 in time.
You never recognized that simple biblical fact.

You are adding that part about the church being the bride of the Lamb.

A women is a bride before she is a wife.
What grade are you in ?

Ephesians 5 is about the wife of Christ being eventually presented to Christ spotless, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing.

That is because this wife of Christ is also His body.
The Bible is many faceted. And one relationship of the church to Christ is that it is His Wife. And another aspect of the relationship of the church to Christ is that she is His body.

Ephesians 5 speaks of both aspects. You just missed it.
You may still miss it.
But you what? I forgive you.

These simple common sense issues derail your doctrine and you go astray.

Nothing here you wrote rescues you from your blunder that before we see New Jerusalem in full in Revelation 21 we see the Wife has made herself READY in chapter 19.

You somehow tried to cover up the error with an argument about the Body of Christ verses the Wife or Bride of Christ. It failed badly.

But I forgive you.