Would this be a nil-nil draw? Or a real slugfest, a mult-igoal thriller, a back and forth where the last possession may be the clincher? I say most definitely a slugfest of musical genius rarely taking place concurrently throughout a lifetime of extraordinary achievement. Both composers gifted us some of history's greatest masterworks and immeasurable pleasure.
Excellent indeed. I love both and in the end it is sort of an apples and oranges argument where both fruits are of the highest order and incredibly delectable.
Originally posted by scacchipazzo Excellent indeed. I love both and in the end it is sort of an apples and oranges argument where both fruits are of the highest order and incredibly delectable.
I like both apples and oranges, but I prefer oranges. And I'm prepared to come down on Wagner's side here. Verdi was a great composer in many many ways, but I find Wagner's music more coherent, more perfect, more complex, more profoundly integrated into the development of a narrative, more far-reaching, more transformative, more revolutionary.
Originally posted by Teinosuke I like both apples and oranges, but I prefer oranges. And I'm prepared to come down on Wagner's side here. Verdi was a great composer in many many ways, but I find Wagner's music more coherent, more perfect, more complex, more profoundly integrated into the development of a narrative, more far-reaching, more transformative, more revolutionary.
I cannot find any fault in your argument for I basically feel the same and anger my many Italian friends. Wagner was indeed unique and special. IN the end however, I enjoy both composers so much I can never decide which to bring on trips so I always bring both!
Originally posted by scacchipazzo I cannot find any fault in your argument for I basically feel the same and anger my many Italian friends. Wagner was indeed unique and special. IN the end however, I enjoy both composers so much I can never decide which to bring on trips so I always bring both!
I'd add that in my humble opinion, Mozart was greater than either, indeed, probably the greatest composer in all opera. And of course, he cleverly confounds any nationalistic prejudices by his triumphant success as a composer in both the German and the Italian versions of the medium!
Originally posted by Teinosuke I'd add that in my humble opinion, Mozart was greater than either, indeed, probably the greatest composer in all opera. And of course, he cleverly confounds any nationalistic prejudices by his triumphant success as a composer in both the German and the Italian versions of the medium!
Mozart indeed may be the best of all. His gift was speaking Italian fluently and the very understanding of the beautiful language helped him write masterpieces in that language along with the help of Lorenzo da Ponte. Da Ponte was a literary genius and his libretti had such beautiful writing it was impossible for a genius like Mozart not to find writing great music to such libretti. Da Ponte ends up in NYC after his association with Mozart ends and taught Italian literature at Columbia. He is buried in NYC. Of all Italian composers writing in the classical/baroque genre only Pergolesi's Serva Padrona comes close to Cosi Fan Tutte, Nozze di Figaro and Don Giovanni. In German Beethoven's Fidelio and von Weber's Der Freischutze are excellent examples of a Mozartean style.
Originally posted by scacchipazzo Mozart indeed may be the best of all. His gift was speaking Italian fluently and the very understanding of the beautiful language helped him write masterpieces in that language along with the help of Lorenzo da Ponte. Da Ponte was a literary genius and his libretti had such beautiful writing it was impossible for a genius like Mozart not to find writing ...[text shortened]... thoven's Fidelio and von Weber's Der Freischutze are excellent examples of a Mozartean style.
It was only recently that I learned that Da Ponte ended his days in the United States - strange to think of his bridging such different worlds!
Of course, Freischutz is a kind of missing link between Mozart and Wagner, as is shown by the fact that it's often sung by singers with a Wagnerian repertoire.
Speaking of Mozart's German output, I think it's a great tragedy that he never finished his Zaide! Ruhe sanft, mein Holdes Leben is one of the most sublime soprano arias I know:
Originally posted by Teinosuke It was only recently that I learned that Da Ponte ended his days in the United States - strange to think of his bridging such different worlds!
Of course, Freischutz is a kind of missing link between Mozart and Wagner, as is shown by the fact that it's often sung by singers with a Wagnerian repertoire.
Speaking of Mozart's German output, I think it's ...[text shortened]... s one of the most sublime soprano arias I know:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSQqbJPoSbw
I have always loved this aria and because my mother's name is Zaide I find it even more endearing. There are many jewels in the German language operatic repertoire.
Battle of the giants, Verdi vs Wagner
04 Jul '13 13:33
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