Nationality, Patriotism and Identity

1. The ability to stand still when drunk.

2. Yes.

3. It strongly influences it.

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Copying and pasting from the General Forum: *

The language? The kind of songs, literature etc. they grew up with (but on the other hand, I don't know most of the music my German peers grew up with, so that doesn't really help)? I really don't know.

Here in Norway, I have been part of some conversations where people started to make references I didn't understand that most people that were part of the conversation did understand. It would be easy to say that this was because I am German. But then what about the younger colleague who didn't understand it because she was too young, or the colleague who had grown up in Oslo who didn't understand it because it was a Northern Norwegian thing? Also, would it make me patriotic if I'd feel that being German is a major part of being me?

*: No, I don't think copying and pasting from the General Forum is what makes a German person different than an English person.

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Personally, I think moving to a different city changed (or opened) my perspective more than moving to a different country. But yes, moving to a different country has also widened my view and changed my perspective to a degree, as has meeting people from different social and cultural backgrounds (irrespective of nationality), travelling, reading etc.

Does your nationality define who you are?

I don't think so. The environment I grew up in has certainly had a strong influence on me, and it was a German environment. But I don't think the fact that it was German was the main characteristic of the environment, and I don't think that just because something has an influence on you, it becomes a defining characteristic.

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I don't have a problem with saying that I am German, and I don't think it would make me patriotic to say so (now if I'd say I am proud to be German, that would be a different matter, and to me it makes as little sense as saying I am proud to be a woman, middle-aged or blue-eyed). I just don't think it defines me. I also don't doubt there are many people who are more influenced by their nationality and who feel it's a major part of their identity (just like many, maybe most people feel that their gender is a major part of their identity, which I also don't feel to be true for myself), and I don't have a problem with that.

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I have a certain sentimentality for the area I grew up in (the New York Metropolitan Area), but the more I see of America, the less patriotic I become. The general culture in Texas, California, the mid-west...etc. is very very different from where I grew up. Not to say that's bad; I just don't identify with them very much. I lived in New England for a while after college. New England was great, and I miss it to a degree, but it didn't feel quite like home either.

In my personal opinion, the concept of American unity is something that's perpetuated by the powers that be, in an effort keep the masses in line, and convince them to do their bidding. I could easily leave this country tomorrow and never look back.

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." -Howard Zinn

Originally posted by rbmorris
I have a certain sentimentality for the area I grew up in (the New York Metropolitan Area), but the more I see of America, the less patriotic I become. The general culture in Texas, California, the mid-west...etc. is very very different from where I grew up. Not to say that's bad; I just don't identify with them very much. I lived in New England for a wh ...[text shortened]... omorrow and never look back.

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." -Howard Zinn

" Patriotism" is a word that seems rarely used outside the US because of the hand on chest, looking glass self sentimentality the term evokes. It makes the rest of the world want to puke, IMHO

Originally posted by drdon
" Patriotism" is a word that seems rarely used outside the US because of the hand on chest, looking glass self sentimentality the term evokes. It makes the rest of the world want to puke, IMHO

Same here.

It's a word that (in the US anyway) has caused a lot more bad than good in recent years.

Originally posted by rbmorris
Same here.

It's a word that (in the US anyway) has caused a lot more bad than good in recent years.

Judging by the number of hands on chests I see on TV recently, it seems to cause a lot of heartburn too... Either that or the good'ol Stars and Stripes causes a lot of coronary disease

Seeing the U.S. is not exactly seeing the world, rb.

Quite the opposite, really.

Originally posted by Seitse
Seeing the U.S. is not exactly seeing the world, rb.

Quite the opposite, really.

Not sure what you're getting at.

I was responding to the question, "Does your nationality define who you are?" In my case, the answer would be "no". If forced to list my 50 defining characteristics, I sincerely doubt it would even occur to me to list my nationality.

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Nationalities are important in the sense that there is an associated culture (which can be a mix of individual ones) with them. The way one views family, work, religion, personal relationships, marriage has been influenced vastly by the culture in which they were immersed. The corollary is that the more you live in a multicultural society, the less is nationality important in defining yourself. In my opinion, this is actually also a loss as diversity is also diluted. The obvious gain is the progressive elimination of the sort of patriotism that some discussed here.

Nevertheless, the presence of national media, school curricula and peer habit formation are still vastly important in defining one's opinions, social behaviour and even sense of humour.

The evidence for the national influence is too large to deny it. Religion, political systems, social behaviours, etc are heavily correlated across geographical areas and even more so within countries.

Nobody is brought up in a vacuum. Starrman may argue until is blue in the face, but we all know he'd be a different person had he been born in, say, China.

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I'll address the last two...all people are different.

Yes, I believe so. Culture in the community and/or in the workplace can be vastly different depending on the country you are in and most will adapt to succeed. One's perspective may change depending on how deeply rooted it was to begin with. Some move and live their daily lives about like all the rest but at home they are true to their original culture. I've had friends whose parents made life difficult for them in the states because their children had to live two separate lives. Some move and morph into new citizens of the culture they have settled in. I think religion/spirituality plays the largest role in this.

I do not think nationality defines who you are, I think who a person "is" depends on a number of factors including parental influence, childhood experience, intelligence, ambition, mental stability, etc. Again, I think religion and spirituality vary country to country as well and can influence it's citizens hugely.