New Star Trek

Originally posted by uzless
The original series is kind of a joke by today's standards...in the same way that I dream of Jeannie, or Leave it to Beaver would be.

It's hard to compare shows from one era to shows in a different era though.


Don't get me wrong...the movie is decent and is better than any of the recent ones. My issue is with the degenerative downward spiral in dece ...[text shortened]... I just found it confusing and sad. Perhaps my moral compass is too far up Palynka's ass.

However, the original series defined what star trek is. It was a group of people racing around the galaxy shooting the crap out of all sort of ugly aliens and finding ever more polystyrene planets on which to lose another anonymous crew member. The main characters used to moan at each other in a friendly way and none of them needed a counselor to keep them morally smug and superior as they did in the god awful next generation.

Personally I enjoyed the movie even though it is a load of nonsense. For me, it took me right back to the original series in feel and in the sense of adventure and discarded all the socio-babble of the last forty odd years. It was fun. It isn't supposed to be a great work of science fiction. It is just a typical family friendly adventure set in space.

So to say the movie wasn't a real star trek misses the point in my view. Somewhere in every television series or movie is a reference to "boldly go where no man (or "one" depending on level of political correctness) has gone before" which comes from the original star trek mission statement. Only the original series and Voyager actually paid any attention to that and Voyager gradually descended into the mushy vagueness that the rest suffered from after a while too.

By the way, I didn't feel Scotty was making fun of the weird alien thingy.

Jeez, I can't believe I cared enough about Star Trek to write all that!

Originally posted by uzless
The original series is kind of a joke by today's standards...

It's a good joke. I'm pleased that its been reissued and is now cheaply available complete with magazine at bargain magazine shops.

Originally posted by Wheely
Personally I enjoyed the movie even though it is a load of nonsense. For me, it took me right back to the original series in feel and in the sense of adventure and discarded all the socio-babble of the last forty odd years. It was fun. It isn't supposed to be a great work of science fiction. It is just a typical family friendly adventure set in space.

Touche. Of course that might be hard to realize for the cultural elite wannabes like uzless here.

The fun part is that he thinks he's different.

Originally posted by Scriabin
What really got to me was the cynical obliviousness that caused the film makers to turn this into a neo-Nazi fashion show. If it hadn't been so shallow and lame, it might have been worth a serious thought.

But that movie was so completely a modern analog to a grade B 1950s monster flick -- all computer effects and no brains -- that it simply vanished into that place where truly unimportant, bad films go to die.

If's funny how you were on the brink of understanding the motives of the director, but then you fail miserably by labelling it as a monster flick.

Fascism and militarism are all over Heinlein's book. Even if you failed to notice it when you were a kid, you sure as hell should have noticed it by now.

The film, in my opinion, portrays this excellently. To the extent that many people were angry that it glorified fascism, when it fact it was a satire of fascism. The ambiguity that is able to keep audiences guessing whether this is a satire or a glorification of fascism, is what makes the directing great. This is by far Verhoeven's best film.

Edit - Starship Troopers and The Forever War are two books that I generally recommend reading in sequence. The contrast between them makes them great complements.

Originally posted by Palynka
If's funny how you were on the brink of understanding the motives of the director, but then you fail miserably by labelling it as a monster flick.

Fascism and militarism are all over Heinlein's book. Even if you failed to notice it when you were a kid, you sure as hell should have noticed it by now.

The film, in my opinion, portrays this excellently. T erally recommend reading in sequence. The contrast between them makes them great complements.

Damn! Was he talking about Starship Troopers there? My eyes had started to glaze over. I really enjoyed Starship Troopers too. Total bollox of course, utterly stupid premise, a military strategy consisting entirely of "follow me!!!" and doing again exactly what failed last time but those nasty creatures where great and the film was as fun as they come.

I don´t understand how anybody could miss the mocking of "fascism" in that movie either.

Originally posted by StTito

Purists suck. If you don't like the remaid or morphed version of your favorite artwork fine, art is opinion. But there is nothing more boring and tedious to hear than some older person saying it was better in "his/her" day. Expand and grow or shut up and go to your rocking chair.

your comments would fit well in the movie. Nothing as exhilerating as watching one character call the other one names.

Thanks for providing another example of what the modern movie goer wants to see.

Originally posted by Wheely
By the way, I didn't feel Scotty was making fun of the weird alien thingy.

Then what was he doing?

Originally posted by Wheely
I really enjoyed Starship Troopers too. .

uh, you're losing credibility faster than palynka here

Originally posted by uzless
uh, you're losing credibility faster than palynka here

Hey, I´ll even admit to having liked the Spice Girls and Sugarbabes too. I´m not proud.

If I want to watch something cerebral, I won´t watch Starship Troopers but if I want to watch something funny, with cool monsters and some hot babes (though only one of them doesn´t make you want to force feed her to a giant mutant stick instect) then Starship Troopers is a good candidate.

EDIT: I didn´t notice him doing anything particular to the funny alien thingy except maybe making the odd joke. I make jokes to my cat too but I´m pretty sure he´s never offended.

Originally posted by Palynka
Touche. Of course that might be hard to realize for the cultural elite wannabes like uzless here.

The fun part is that he thinks he's different.

oh my sad sad dear palynka. While I wouldn't limit my eliteness to just culture, in this case we are not even talking about culture.

We are talking about societal standards. You may be upset because the bar for your standards may be below some of us, we understand that. You can't measure up all the time. It's hard to be better.

It takes a certain measure in order to stand up and out. Not everyone has the strength of character to announce his presence with authority..risking the disdain and the wrath of those lower on the food chain.

Begone, and if the uzless oxygen burns in your lungs then find some other stuffiness that suits you. Find your own spark of divine fire! You're just an owl sickened by a few days of my sunshine.

Originally posted by uzless
oh my sad sad dear palynka. While I wouldn't limit my eliteness to just culture, in this case we are not even talking about culture.

We are talking about societal standards. You may be upset because the bar for your standards may be below some of us, we understand that. You can't measure up all the time. It's hard to be better.

It takes a certain me ...[text shortened]... ind your own spark of divine fire! You're just an owl sickened by a few days of my sunshine.

I'm just laughing at your cultural/societal/moral/call-it-what-you-want absolutism. It was never about the bar being higher or lower, but I'm not surprised you don't get it.

Originally posted by Scriabin

In truth, the movie and TV entertainment business will not present and does not want shows that go where no one has gone before.

they don't make money.

Then you are simply watching the wrong movies. Here´s a few you could try if you want something different.

A very long Engagement
Other people´s lives
Martyrs (don´t watch that if you´re a sensitive soul though)
This is Britain
84 Charing Cross Road
Breaking the Waves
Ellin

Hmm, before going on, I notice that none of these are American and most of them aren´t even in English but I´m pretty sure we could think of some ground breaking US ones there too.

How about Perfume, Pulp Fiction or even Natural Born Killers and plenty more too.

THey are pretty groundbreaking. It´s a shame that nearly all the American movies have people killing other people in though and only two of first lot would be considered violent.

You´re not going to find ground breaking stuff in a star trek picture.

Originally posted by uzless
oh my sad sad dear palynka. While I wouldn't limit my eliteness to just culture, in this case we are not even talking about culture.

We are talking about societal standards. You may be upset because the bar for your standards may be below some of us, we understand that. You can't measure up all the time. It's hard to be better.

It takes a certain me ...[text shortened]... ind your own spark of divine fire! You're just an owl sickened by a few days of my sunshine.

Social standards!!

You´re complaining about people having a few impolite words to each other in a movie consisting of genocide, torture and people killing each other??

Originally posted by Wheely
Then you are simply watching the wrong movies. Here´s a few you could try if you want something different.

A very long Engagement
Other people´s lives
Martyrs (don´t watch that if you´re a sensitive soul though)
This is Britain
84 Charing Cross Road
Breaking the Waves
Ellin

Hmm, before going on, I notice that none of these are American and most o ...[text shortened]... be considered violent.

You´re not going to find ground breaking stuff in a star trek picture.

Did you like Martyrs? Maybe it was the because it was so hyped, but I was actually disappointed by it...

Originally posted by Wheely
Social standards!!

You´re complaining about people having a few impolite words to each other in a movie consisting of genocide, torture and people killing each other??

uzless thinks he can determine what people should laugh about.