Originally posted by sonhouse Shows you what you can do when you have absolute power and there is no media to show you for what you are. I guess most people knew exactly what he was though. He eventually got what he deserved though just 20 years too late.
14 years too late. Reigned from 54-68. Agreed any time was too late. Nero had a huge network of spies so it was very difficult opposing him. His ruthlessness struck fear in all but the more distant opponents who bided their time in their governorships and Vespasian was in the inner circle and could not muster up a following until Nero's death. Nero's death ushered in civil war and the year of the four emperors, Galba, Otho, Vitellius and Vespasian. Vindex, Galba's main rival might ahve made a better emperor, but was too fat, lazy and pusillanimous to assert himself forcefully. Curiously several Nero impersonators appeared leading revolts. All were executed as frauds.
Originally posted by scacchipazzo 14 years too late. Reigned from 54-68. Agreed any time was too late. Nero had a huge network of spies so it was very difficult opposing him. His ruthlessness struck fear in all but the more distant opponents who bided their time in their governorships and Vespasian was in the inner circle and could not muster up a following until Nero's death. Nero's de ...[text shortened]... . Curiously several Nero impersonators appeared leading revolts. All were executed as frauds.
Originally posted by sonhouse Sounds like you have made a study of Nero.
Nah! Just a Roman history buff and Italophile in general. I don't know nearly as much about the other emperors, excepting Constantine the Great, Marcus Aurelius, Claudius, Augustus, of course, Vespasian, his two sons Titus and Domitian, Diocletian, Julianus, and several others who were fascinating characters such as Tiberius. I know more about republican Rome than imperial Rome. Caligula is boring! Summarized in one word: NUTS!
I became fascinated with Nero through opera of all things, since La Incoronazione di Poppea deals front and center with the story of Nero and is Monteverdi's oldest extant opera.
Originally posted by scacchipazzo Nah! Just a Roman history buff and Italophile in general. I don't know nearly as much about the other emperors, excepting Constantine the Great, Marcus Aurelius, Claudius, Augustus, of course, Vespasian, his two sons Titus and Domitian, Diocletian, Julianus, and several others who were fascinating characters such as Tiberius. I know more about republica ...[text shortened]... Poppea deals front and center with the story of Nero and is Monteverdi's oldest extant opera.
How much truth about Nero did Monty put in that opera? BTW, did you watch the BBC series "Rome"?
Originally posted by sonhouse How much truth about Nero did Monty put in that opera? BTW, did you watch the BBC series "Rome"?
Opera is never exactly accurate. Monty makes it seem as if Nero was merely Agrippina's puppet and nothing but a victim. I did watch a wee bit of BBC's Rome. Highly inaccurate, romanticized and needlessly politically correct. Had they used Colleen McCullough's Master of Rome series(8 volumes) they might have painted a better picture of the era. McCullough is about as erudite on Rome as many who formally studied the subject. What I like about her treatment of a complex subject is she sugarcoats no one and does not imbue the characters with modern mores/ideas.
The only time I've seen Poppea staged I was not prepared for the middling, but stunningly beautiful singer in the role of Poppea, who spent a large portion of the opera in a sheer gown with not a stitch underneath. Somehow I doubt Monteverdi would approve. I approved, however!
Originally posted by scacchipazzo Opera is never exactly accurate. Monty makes it seem as if Nero was merely Agrippina's puppet and nothing but a victim. I did watch a wee bit of BBC's Rome. Highly inaccurate, romanticized and needlessly politically correct. Had they used Colleen McCullough's Master of Rome series(8 volumes) they might have painted a better picture of the era. McCulloug ...[text shortened]... with not a stitch underneath. Somehow I doubt Monteverdi would approve. I approved, however!
I wonder how much of the real truth of the Roman empire lies in the ashes of the burned library of Alexandria. What sources did she use in her series?
Originally posted by sonhouse I wonder how much of the real truth of the Roman empire lies in the ashes of the burned library of Alexandria. What sources did she use in her series?
McCullough uses the tarditional sources such as Tacitus, Dio Cassius, Commentarii de Bello Gallico, Livy, Josephus, Cicero's Phillippics, Sallust, Suetonius and many others. Where there are gaps McCullough invents credible/plausible accounts of what might have happened.
BTW, not everything was lost in the Alexandrian library fire, at least not the one caused by Caesar.
Originally posted by scacchipazzo McCullough uses the tarditional sources such as Tacitus, Dio Cassius, Commentarii de Bello Gallico, Livy, Josephus, Cicero's Phillippics, Sallust, Suetonius and many others. Where there are gaps McCullough invents credible/plausible accounts of what might have happened.
BTW, not everything was lost in the Alexandrian library fire, at least not the one caused by Caesar.
Originally posted by sonhouse How much of it made it to modern times?
It is hard to say. The tragedy would have been to lose Livy. Many of the Alexandrian books were Hellenistic so the knowledge was contained elsewhere already. I seriously doubt a whole lot was lost. Many knew exactly what to do in case of fore, sacking and such. I recently saw an exhibit of manuscripts hidden away in Spain before Napoleon's sack of the Vatican after his invasion of Italy. Why Spain? Because Nappy would never look there! By then Spain was a backwater relative to the rest of Europe.
Originally posted by scacchipazzo It is hard to say. The tragedy would have been to lose Livy. Many of the Alexandrian books were Hellenistic so the knowledge was contained elsewhere already. I seriously doubt a whole lot was lost. Many knew exactly what to do in case of fore, sacking and such. I recently saw an exhibit of manuscripts hidden away in Spain before Napoleon's sack of the V ...[text shortened]... use Nappy would never look there! By then Spain was a backwater relative to the rest of Europe.
I wonder if they are available online? I would love to read the translations.
Originally posted by sonhouse I wonder if they are available online? I would love to read the translations.
I think you might really enjoy the manuscripts displayed, the ones alluded to, because many were medieval hymnals, painstakingly illuminated by monks and all done in parchment paper. Not incredibly, many are probably available online. You can read Caesar's Commentarii de Bello Gallico in side by side translation in various websites. Same as Dante's Inferno and countless other classics.
Originally posted by scacchipazzo I think you might really enjoy the manuscripts displayed, the ones alluded to, because many were medieval hymnals, painstakingly illuminated by monks and all done in parchment paper. Not incredibly, many are probably available online. You can read Caesar's Commentarii de Bello Gallico in side by side translation in various websites. Same as Dante's Inferno and countless other classics.
I read an overview on Wiki and started reading the first volume and in the first page came across this:
"Of all these, the Belgae are the bravest, because they are furthest from the civilization and refinement of [our] Province, and merchants least frequently resort to them, and import those things which tend to effeminate the mind;"
I wonder what imports he was talking about. Effeminate the mind. Curious term.
Originally posted by sonhouse I read an overview on Wiki and started reading the first volume and in the first page came across this:
"Of all these, the Belgae are the bravest, because they are furthest from the civilization and refinement of [our] Province, and merchants least frequently resort to them, and import those things which tend to effeminate the mind;"
I wonder what imports he was talking about. Effeminate the mind. Curious term.
Real men like Caesar saw refinement of any kind as feminzing/unvirilizing. Romans even then had become enamored of perfumes, fancy clothing, fancy food and were less bellicose than even a hundred years before. It is a curious statement coming from someone with a reputation for being every woman's husband and every man's wife and also as a "dandy" in his teenage years. Caesar was also suspected of having traded his virginity to the King Nicomedes of Bythinia for a fleet of ships he the turned over to Lucullus for the conquest of a neighboring kingdom whose name escapes me. The rumor got more serious when Nicomedes bequeathed his entire kingdom to Rome upon his death.
Originally posted by scacchipazzo Real men like Caesar saw refinement of any kind as feminzing/unvirilizing. Romans even then had become enamored of perfumes, fancy clothing, fancy food and were less bellicose than even a hundred years before. It is a curious statement coming from someone with a reputation for being every woman's husband and every man's wife and also as a "dandy" in his ...[text shortened]... rumor got more serious when Nicomedes bequeathed his entire kingdom to Rome upon his death.
Originally posted by sonhouse I guess old Nick thought he was a great lay....
Hadn't thought of it that way. However, every historian ever asked thinks this was but a mere slur propagated by Lucullus who had sent Caesar to what he thought was certain death by putting him at the head of a famously undisciplined cohort into a headlong attack on a heavily fortified position of the enemy at the battle of Myteline. Lucullus did not expect Caesar to survive. Caesar not only survives, but earns the Corona Civica and automatic entry into the senate, which eh had lost by having his investiture as Flamen Dialis(priest of Jupiter) removed. Of the various flaminates the Flamen Dialis could not touch blood, witness death, could touch no metal, tie no knots and this proscriptions eliminated a military career.
Playing musical instruments staves off decline:
09 Dec '12 13:15
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