@metal-brain said
@shavixmir
Russia? What is your source of information?
“NATO was busted until I came along,” Trump said at a rally in Conway, South Carolina. “I said, ‘Everybody’s gonna pay.’ They said, ‘Well, if we don’t pay, are you still going to protect us?’ I said, ‘Absolutely not.’ They couldn’t believe the answer.”
Trump said “one of the presidents of a big country” at one point asked him whether the US would still defend the country if they were invaded by Russia even if they “don’t pay.”
“No, I would not protect you,” Trump recalled telling that president. “In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You got to pay. You got to pay your bills.”
From CNN https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/10/politics/trump-russia-nato/index.html (there is a video)
Proove me wrong
@Ponderable
Trump saying that seems like he is pro NATO to me. He just wants them to pay up and buy weapons from us. Trump is puppet of the military industrial complex. When he says pay their share he means buying weapons from the USA.
Trump is a NATO Nazi. He wants to force them to pay, but I am sure the elites support him on that. They are fascists.
@ponderable saidMany will say that this is just smart politicking: make everyone pay their share or dissolve the alliance as it is worthless.
[quote]
“NATO was busted until I came along,” Trump said at a rally in Conway, South Carolina. “I said, ‘Everybody’s gonna pay.’ They said, ‘Well, if we don’t pay, are you still going to protect us?’ I said, ‘Absolutely not.’ They couldn’t believe the answer.”
Trump said “one of the presidents of a big country” at one point asked him whether the US would still defend ...[text shortened]... ition.cnn.com/2024/02/10/politics/trump-russia-nato/index.html (there is a video)
Proove me wrong
It's a win-win for Trump and his base: he either gets a bunch of European countries to jump when he says "jump!", as they are likely already planning on doing in the wake of the Russian invasion of the Ukraine, or he gets to pour gas on the fire that has become a conflagration of Americans more interested in isolationism.
If Democrats during a debate try to hit him with this, he gets to bust them up with common sense plus the fact that Europeans are already getting in line on this issue.
Honestly, though, I think it is a weak threat: only the most frightened people actually believe Russia has any aims to invade other European states.
It's extremely bad diplomacy.
Most of the countries are EU, so are protected anyway. Why pay more, if the US is threatening to feed you to the dogs?
NATO is a protection pact. trump's comments don't increase mutual protection. It spews forth disparity and friction.
And what sort of international signal are you sending by telling Russia they can invade another country, no matter what the bloody reason?
It's not for nothing NATO and the international community are raising eyebrows and condemning the man's stupidity.
And I'm not even pro-NATO!
That trump is a laughing stock is all fine and well, but he really has to keep his opinions in America. We've got enough nut jobs internationally as it is.
The US Bred him, let them feed him, keep him and suck his arse.
@vivify saidNATO won’t fall apart it will morph into a European defence pact solely focused on local security threats, basically the Russian threat and terrorism.
If Trump is elected he will pull out of NATO and it will fall apart. He's a progressive's dream.
Not being dragged into defending Israel or far flung projects like Iraq / Afghanistan Taiwan etc might be 2nd peace dividend for western and Central European states who can focus on their eastern flank.
The US will no longer have the moral fig leaf or logistical bases for its imperial projects
Russia will feel the effects of the invasion of Ukraine for years, maybe decades. Russia won't invade anything else in the foreseeable future.
Also, it is ludicrous to believe the NATO pact will disolve just because the US would no longer be a part of while Trump is in office. If anything, it will become even more necessary.
@philokalia saidMaybe the dems will remind the voters that the only time article 5 has been invoked it was invoked by the US because of 9/11 when NATO counties spent blood and treasure in defence of the US
Many will say that this is just smart politicking: make everyone pay their share or dissolve the alliance as it is worthless.
It's a win-win for Trump and his base: he either gets a bunch of European countries to jump when he says "jump!", as they are likely already planning on doing in the wake of the Russian invasion of the Ukraine, or he gets to pour gas on the fire ...[text shortened]... nly the most frightened people actually believe Russia has any aims to invade other European states.
@kevcvs57 saidTwo years ago I would've disagreed.
NATO won’t fall apart it will morph into a European defence pact solely focused on local security threats, basically the Russian threat and terrorism.
Not being dragged into defending Israel or far flung projects like Iraq / Afghanistan Taiwan etc might be 2nd peace dividend for western and Central European states who can focus on their eastern flank.
The US will no longer have the moral fig leaf or logistical bases for its imperial projects
The U.S. is the most powerful member of NATO and by far the largest financial contributor. My opinion was the U.S. leaving would cause a domino effect of other nations exiting the alliance.
However, the addition of both Finland and Sweden are huge (though I'm not sure they would've joined had the U.S. left).
NATO will be just fine without the U.S. and it will be America's loss if it withdraws. The #2 and 3 most powerful nations are allies and both hate the U.S. (as well as the entire Arab world). We have too many enemies to risk losing NATO.