Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Subscribersonhouse
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    21 Jun '17 17:07
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/19/us/coming-out-as-mormon-and-gay-trnd/?iid=ob_lockedrail_bottomlist

    Real loving Mormons, cut her off from her speech, go sit down bitch....
  2. Joined
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    21 Jun '17 18:03
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/19/us/coming-out-as-mormon-and-gay-trnd/?iid=ob_lockedrail_bottomlist

    Real loving Mormons, cut her off from her speech, go sit down bitch....
    Looks like she will lose her NBA team

    Sad
  3. Subscribersonhouse
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    21 Jun '17 19:24
    Originally posted by whodey
    Looks like she will lose her NBA team

    Sad
    Not appropriate. You are part of the problem. Did you even listen to the girl? She was pouring her heart out and those assswipes cut her off.
  4. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    21 Jun '17 23:39
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/19/us/coming-out-as-mormon-and-gay-trnd/?iid=ob_lockedrail_bottomlist

    Real loving Mormons, cut her off from her speech, go sit down bitch....
    One brave little girl, but I do think her parents should have given her better advice.
    It's one thing for her to say to family "At this moment I am attracted to girls but not boys"
    but labelling herself at 12 to being homosexual (or heterosexual) is too young.
  5. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    22 Jun '17 01:13
    One of the important pieces of background knowledge is that Muslims allow & encourage any church members to come forward and give their testimony. Oddly enough, it can be used by people even theoretically outisde of the Church. There is a funny story about the theologian James White delivering a speech at a Mormon stake about this.

    ... I watched the actual video. It seems that she gave a good portion of the speech prior to be cut off, and that she was eventually cut off perhaps because she was in violation of the basic tenets of the Mormon faith, which seems to be reasonable. The fact that it is a juvenile speaking, though, may be what makes people more inclined to say that she deserves the right to continue speaking & speaking...

    But my question would be, if this scenario was reversed, and it was a 12 year old preaching against homosexuality at a school, how would people react? My guess is that they would say that it is some brainwashed kid that shouldn't be allowed to 'spew bigotry' or some such. I am curious if anyone here would tell me otherwise, that they support both instances of free speech.
  6. Zugzwang
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    22 Jun '17 01:211 edit
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    One brave little girl, but I do think her parents should have given her better advice.
    It's one thing for her to say to family "At this moment I am attracted to girls but not boys"
    but labelling herself at 12 to being homosexual (or heterosexual) is too young.
    Would Wolfgang59 have similar objections if a 12 year old girl proclaimed that she was very
    attracted to boys rather than to girls? Should she deny her own feelings to conform with societal demands?

    Sexual orientation is not the same as gender identity.
    In reality, however, it's common for children who are 12 years old (or younger) to have developed
    a clear sense of gender identity even when it does not correspond to what's on their birth certificates.
    Gender dysphoria has been diagnosed in children who are 12 years old or younger.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria_in_children

    Many homophobic people believe in or at least hope for a 'cure' of homosexuality.
    One of the most dramatic attempted 'cures' is 'corrective rape'.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrective_rape

    "Corrective rape is a hate crime in which one or more people are raped because of their perceived
    sexual orientation or gender identity. The common intended consequence of the rape, as seen by
    the perpetrator, is to turn the person heterosexual or to enforce conformity with gender stereotypes."
  7. Zugzwang
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    22 Jun '17 01:24
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/19/us/coming-out-as-mormon-and-gay-trnd/?iid=ob_lockedrail_bottomlist

    Real loving Mormons, cut her off from her speech, go sit down bitch....
    In a less sexualized traditional culture, when a girl 'came out', she was a debutante, not a lesbian.
  8. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    22 Jun '17 05:27
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Would Wolfgang59 have similar objections if a 12 year old girl proclaimed that she was very
    attracted to boys rather than to girls?
    YES.

    If you had sufficient comprehension to understand my post you would know that.

    Here it is again:

    but labelling herself at 12 to being homosexual (or heterosexual) is too young.
  9. Subscribersonhouse
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    22 Jun '17 10:05
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    YES.

    If you had sufficient comprehension to understand my post you would know that.

    Here it is again:

    but labelling herself at 12 to being homosexual (or heterosexual) is too young.
    12 is not that young to come out as gay. There are transgender kids who refuse to wear the gender assigned to them at birth, at the age of THREE. And they go on to be trans 10 or 20 years later.
  10. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    22 Jun '17 10:40
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    There are transgender kids who refuse to wear the gender assigned to them at birth, at the age of THREE. And they go on to be trans 10 or 20 years later.
    And those that do not.
  11. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    22 Jun '17 10:44
    Originally posted by Jacob Verville

    But my question would be, if this scenario was reversed, and it was a 12 year old preaching against homosexuality at a school, how would people react?
    How is that "reversing the scenario"?

    Reversing the scenario would be a kid coming out as heterosexual.

    This girl was not advocating lesbianism as a choice.
    She was not trying to impose her opinion on others.
    She was not being a bigot.
    She was simply stating how she felt.

    What right has a 12 year-old (or any-year old) to tell others that homosexuality is not right?
  12. Joined
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    22 Jun '17 14:19
    I think this girl is brave. She didn't do anything wrong.
    And she has brave parents who support her in her decision to come out.
    Go, girl, go!
  13. Joined
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    22 Jun '17 14:497 edits
    Originally posted by Jacob Verville
    One of the important pieces of background knowledge is that Muslims allow & encourage any church members to come forward and give their testimony. Oddly enough, it can be used by people even theoretically outisde of the Church. There is a funny story about the theologian James White delivering a speech at a Mormon stake about this.

    ... I watched t ...[text shortened]... curious if anyone here would tell me otherwise, that they support both instances of free speech.
    One of the important pieces of background knowledge is that Muslims allow & encourage any church members to come forward and give their testimony.

    As such she should have been allowed to fully give her testimony.

    Especially in light of the following which was in the article cited in the OP:
    On a Mormon Church website titled "Mormon and Gay," it offers the following advice on Mormons who want to come out: "If you decide to share your experiences of feeling same-sex attraction or to openly identify as gay, you should be supported and treated with kindness and respect, both at home and in church."

    The girl wasn't treated with "kindness and respect".

    The fact that it is a juvenile speaking, though, may be what makes people more inclined to say that she deserves the right to continue speaking & speaking...

    In light of the above, she should not have been cut off.

    Seems like it would be more correct to say that you believe that she doesn't "deserve the right to continue speaking & speaking..." because of biases against homosexuality that you seem to hold. That you believe that she doesn't deserve to be treated with kindness and respect. Biases that seem to have affected your ability think rationally about this situation.

    But my question would be, if this scenario was reversed, and it was a 12 year old preaching against homosexuality at a school, how would people react? My guess is that they would say that it is some brainwashed kid that shouldn't be allowed to 'spew bigotry' or some such. I am curious if anyone here would tell me otherwise, that they support both instances of free speech.

    The issue here isn't about "free speech" in general. Rather it is about the girl being treated unfairly in the environment in which she was invited to give her testimony.
  14. Cape Town
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    22 Jun '17 17:29
    Originally posted by Jacob Verville
    I am curious if anyone here would tell me otherwise, that they support both instances of free speech.
    I support free speech but equally support the right of institutions to not support free speech. I do not see the OP as a violation of free speech in any way. She was free to go outside in the street and keep speaking.

    The OP is more about social support or lack thereof for a gay girl expressing a very personal matter in public.

    Of course she would have been shut down much faster if she said she was an atheist.
  15. Subscribersonhouse
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    22 Jun '17 18:16
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I support free speech but equally support the right of institutions to not support free speech. I do not see the OP as a violation of free speech in any way. She was free to go outside in the street and keep speaking.

    The OP is more about social support or lack thereof for a gay girl expressing a very personal matter in public.

    Of course she would have been shut down much faster if she said she was an atheist.
    Or worse, an atheist lesbian!
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