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Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    12 Oct '16 09:00
    https://mic.com/articles/156517/3-000-sexual-assault-survivors-tell-the-gop-to-stop-enabling-donald-trump-in-full-page-ad#.wYRC1BzIq
  2. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    12 Oct '16 21:361 edit
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    https://mic.com/articles/156517/3-000-sexual-assault-survivors-tell-the-gop-to-stop-enabling-donald-trump-in-full-page-ad#.wYRC1BzIq
    Has Brock Turner endorsed Donald Trump yet? (I suspect that his victim will not do so.)

    Given that his father attempted to excuse Brock Turner's sexual assault of an unconscious woman as
    '20 minutes of action', it seems that these Turner men would admire Donald Trump's attitude toward women.
  3. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    13 Oct '16 02:482 edits
    Four more women have just come forward to claim that they were sexually mistreated by Donald Trump.

    Jessica Leeds (who then was a 38 year old businesswoman) claims to have been
    sexually assaulted by Donald Trump when she was seated next to him on an airliner.
    "He [Donald Trump] was like an octopus. His hands were everywhere [over her].
    --Jessica Leeds

    Rachel Crooks (then a 22 year old receptionist) claims that she was forcibly kissed--
    against her will--by Donald Trump in an elevator (apparently in Trump Tower).

    Mindy McGillivray (then 23 years old) claimed that Donald Trump grabbed her backside
    and groped her while she was working at his mansion. (She admits she has a criminal record.)

    Cassandra Searles (a beauty queen, then a Miss USA contestant) claims that Donald Trump
    treated her 'iike cattle', groped her, and asked her to come alone to his hotel room.

    Many years ago, Katarina Witt (a German who won Olympic gold medals in ladies' figure skating)
    said that Donald Trump had tried hard to seduce her, and she had rejected him.
    A Trump spokesman apparently accused her of lying, implying that Donald Trump
    never had attempted to seduce her because if he had, he surely would have succeeded.
    Katarina Witt once said that she hoped to start a trend of women standing up and saying 'No' to Donald Trump.
    It's taken too long to get there, but now it seems that this trend is underway.
  4. Hmmm . . .
    Joined
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    13 Oct '16 03:342 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Four more women have just come forward to claim that they were sexually mistreated by Donald Trump.

    Jessica Leeds (who then was a 38 year old businesswoman) claims to have been
    sexually assaulted by Donald Trump when she was seated next to him on an airliner.
    "He [Donald Trump] was like an octopus. His hands were everywhere [over her].
    --Jessica Le ...[text shortened]... o Donald Trump.
    It's taken too long to get there, but now it seems that this trend is underway.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-women-groped-allegations_us_57febdcde4b0162c0439d535

    In the wake of Wednesday’s allegations, the Trump campaign plans to amplify attacks on former President Bill Clinton, telling Bloomberg the campaign has found women who say they were assaulted by the former president.

    “We’re going to turn him into Bill Cosby,” said campaign CEO Steve Bannon, according to Bloomberg.

    ___________________________________________

    That’s their plan?! Hey, whatever truth they bring out about Bill Clinton is just the truth, and good for it. Go for it. (Interesting choice of words, though: “we’re going to turn him into . . .”.) But Bill is not running. And women voters by and large are not going to care if Bill was as much of a pig as the Donald. [And the new Twitter movement by Trump supporters to repeal the 19th amendment is a bit late (/s).]

    One thing that I hope finally hits home is that none of this is about—or ought to be cavalierly* dismissed as—“locker room talk” or mere “vulgarity”. It is about assault, which Trump formerly bragged about, and now denies. It is about the generalized demeaning—and disempowering—of women.

    If anything, my fervent hope is that all of this will encourage more women to take their power—regardless of what any men (including me) have to say about it, or how to go about it.

    _________________________________________________

    * Funny how that’s the word that came to mind.
  5. Hmmm . . .
    Joined
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    13 Oct '16 04:211 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Four more women have just come forward to claim that they were sexually mistreated by Donald Trump.

    Jessica Leeds (who then was a 38 year old businesswoman) claims to have been
    sexually assaulted by Donald Trump when she was seated next to him on an airliner.
    "He [Donald Trump] was like an octopus. His hands were everywhere [over her].
    --Jessica Le ...[text shortened]... o Donald Trump.
    It's taken too long to get there, but now it seems that this trend is underway.
    There are reports that Trump plans to sue the NYT over the story. I wonder how he’ll handle being deposed?

    /s
  6. Joined
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    13 Oct '16 18:59
    Originally posted by vistesd
    There are reports that Trump plans to sue the NYT over the story. I wonder how he’ll handle being deposed?

    /s
    Good question. Here's what he said about Natasha Stoynoff''s claim (emphasis added): "Take a look, you take a look, look at her, look at her words -- you tell me what you think. I don't think so," Trump said at his rally.

    Is he saying her looks didn't meet his standard for an attack?
  7. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    New York
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    13 Oct '16 20:24
    Originally posted by vistesd
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-women-groped-allegations_us_57febdcde4b0162c0439d535

    In the wake of Wednesday’s allegations, the Trump campaign plans to amplify attacks on former President Bill Clinton, telling Bloomberg the campaign has found women who say they were assaulted by the former president.

    “We’re going to turn him into Bil ...[text shortened]... _____________________________________________

    * Funny how that’s the word that came to mind.
    Watching the Trump candidacy implode has a watch-the-train-wreck quality to it.It's hard to look away like a moth from the flame.
  8. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    13 Oct '16 22:12
    Originally posted by JS357 to Vistesd
    Good question. Here's what he said about Natasha Stoynoff''s claim (emphasis added): "Take a look, you take a look, [b]look at her, look at her words -- you tell me what you think. I don't think so," Trump said at his rally.

    Is he saying her looks didn't meet his standard for an attack?[/b]
    Just by looking at me, some opponents already know that I must be a weak chess player.
    And some of them cling to that opinion after they lose chess games to me.

    It's common for sexist men to claim that a woman's looks affect, if not decisively
    determine, her credibility as a witness or her 'moral worthiness' as a victim.
    Women are judged on account of their appearances about all the time.

    If I recall correctly, I have heard some sexist trolls at RHP say, in effect (not a quotation)
    "What man could be motivated to rape a woman if she's not attractive enough?"
  9. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    13 Oct '16 22:20
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    ...
    Jessica Leeds (who then was a 38 year old businesswoman) claims to have been
    sexually assaulted by Donald Trump when she was seated next to him on an airliner.
    "He [Donald Trump] was like an octopus. His hands were everywhere [over her].
    --Jessica Leeds
    Some writers here like to pursue legalistic loopholes in cases of rape or sexual assault.
    Just in case anyone wishes to accuse Jessica Leeds of exaggerating when she claims that
    Donald Trump sexually assaulted her, she has said that he stuck his hand up underneath her skirt.
    If he groped her genitals, that may satisfy the legal requirement to be considered 'sexual assault'.
    Jessica Leeds said that she would have been less offended if Donald Trump had been
    satisfied to keep all his unwanted physical contact (fondling her breasts) above her waist.
  10. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    14 Oct '16 18:51
    Originally posted by sh76 to Vistesd
    Watching the Trump candidacy implode has a watch-the-train-wreck quality to it.It's hard to look away like a moth from the flame.
    Some surveys have found that many men would like to rape women if they could be certain of avoiding punishment.
    So Donald Trump may appeal to men who already have raped or secretly wish to rape a woman.
    And that may be a considerable number of men.
  11. The Catbird's Seat
    Joined
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    14 Oct '16 19:32
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Four more women have just come forward to claim that they were sexually mistreated by Donald Trump.

    Jessica Leeds (who then was a 38 year old businesswoman) claims to have been
    sexually assaulted by Donald Trump when she was seated next to him on an airliner.
    "He [Donald Trump] was like an octopus. His hands were everywhere [over her].
    --Jessica Le ...[text shortened]... o Donald Trump.
    It's taken too long to get there, but now it seems that this trend is underway.
    Just wondering, if more women are exploiting their "charms", or men like Trump and others are simply responding to the advertising.

    Sexual mistreatment is a loaded wording without any definition. In my experience, more women feel sexually mistreated when they are ignored and bypassed, due to bad personalities or looks.

    This woman years or decades later comes up with a story. Why not in a timely manner? If she thought it not important enough to report at the time, then STFU. I don't believe conveniently concocted stories.
  12. The Catbird's Seat
    Joined
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    14 Oct '16 19:34
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Some surveys have found that many men would like to rape women if they could be certain of avoiding punishment.
    So Donald Trump may appeal to men who already have raped or secretly wish to rape a woman.
    And that may be a considerable number of men.
    You can only hope. A degree if desperation would have to accompany any man seeking your company.
  13. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    14 Oct '16 19:411 edit
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Just wondering, if more women are exploiting their "charms", or men like Trump and others are simply responding to the advertising.

    Sexual mistreatment is a loaded wording without any definition. In my experience, more women feel sexually mistreated when they are ignored and bypassed, due to bad personalities or looks.

    This woman years or decades ...[text shortened]... ortant enough to report at the time, then STFU. I don't believe conveniently concocted stories.
    My earlier point was that Donald Trump has many devoted supporters among sexist men.
    And Normbenign has just confirmed it. Normbenign (predictably) shows that he has no
    comprehension or concern about how difficult it was for an ordinary woman to complain
    about being sexually harassed or assaulted by a powerful man many 'years or decades' ago.

    So does Normbenign believe that all women who have accused Donald Trump of
    sexual misconduct must be lying and that Donald Trump never touched them?
    Or does Normbenign believe that these women must have 'asked for it' by displaying
    their 'charms' and so provoked Donald Trump into kissing, fondling, or groping them?

    Does Normbenign admire Donald Trump for boasting about being able to kiss, fondle,
    or grope women without asking (or caring) about their consent?
  14. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    14 Oct '16 19:42
    Originally posted by normbenign
    You can only hope. A degree if desperation would have to accompany any man seeking your company.
    Thanks to the sexist troll and rape apologist Normbenign for confirming my point.
  15. The Catbird's Seat
    Joined
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    14 Oct '16 19:42
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Just by looking at me, some opponents already know that I must be a weak chess player.
    And some of them cling to that opinion after they lose chess games to me.

    It's common for sexist men to claim that a woman's looks affect, if not decisively
    determine, her credibility as a witness or her 'moral worthiness' as a victim.
    Women are judged on account o ...[text shortened]... (not a quotation)
    "What man could be motivated to rape a woman if she's not attractive enough?"
    What then would motivate a man? Normal sexual attraction motivates both men and women sexually. In civilized societies, mutual consent is required for consummation to take place.

    Men and women both send signals regarding their availability. Some are better at reading these signals than others, but men and women can confirm verbally what they may suspect before proceeding.
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