Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    10 Jul '19 15:18
    @duchess64 said
    In 2015, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev (a Chechen immigrant) was sentenced to death after
    being convicted in a federal trial for crimes that took place only in Massachusetts,
    which has no death penalty.

    As far as I can recall, No1Maruder did not object to that death sentence.
    I can't speak for No1, but Tsarnev was convicted under 18 U.S.C. § 2332a – Use of a Weapon of Mass Destruction. This seems to have a much stronger federal connection than the kidnapping and murder of an individual, however reprehensible the latter may be.
  2. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
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    10 Jul '19 16:071 edit
    @sh76 said
    I can't speak for No1, but Tsarnev was convicted under 18 U.S.C. § 2332a – Use of a Weapon of Mass Destruction. This seems to have a much stronger federal connection than the kidnapping and murder of an individual, however reprehensible the latter may be.
    Her recall sucks; I objected to that sentence, for similar reasons, at the time on this Forum.
  3. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    10 Jul '19 18:34
    @no1marauder said
    Her recall sucks; I objected to that sentence, for similar reasons, at the time on this Forum.
    You don't think federal power should extend to people who plant bombs in places that they know will be frequented by thousands of national and international participants?
  4. Joined
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    10 Jul '19 21:00
    @duchess64 said
    Most Europeans here seem to regard the death penalty as wrong under all circumstances.
    Most Americans here seem to approve of the death penalty.

    In June 2017, Zhang Yingying, a 26 year old Chinese woman who
    was a visiting scholar at the University of Illinois, disappeared.
    Brendt Christiansen (who had worked at the university) was arrested a few weeks later.
    It's a ...[text shortened]... on time, but less than a life sentence
    E) no prison time (de facto acquittal by jury nullification)
    Most of the Americans here seem to approve of the death penalty? How did you come to that conclusion?
  5. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
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    10 Jul '19 21:291 edit
    @sh76 said
    You don't think federal power should extend to people who plant bombs in places that they know will be frequented by thousands of national and international participants?
    Why should it? Massachusetts is perfectly capable of trying those who commit such acts on its soil. I do not recall any interstate or international aspect of that crime and the primary reason the Feds took that case was to impose the death penalty despite the People in that jurisdiction's determination that no crime warrants it.
  6. Zugzwang
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    10 Jul '19 21:48
    @tobias9122 said
    Most of the Americans here seem to approve of the death penalty? How did you come to that conclusion?
    Tobias9122 (an apparently new writer) should not keep acting as if the RHP forums
    do not have years of history before he began to read them.

    Based upon earlier threads about the death penalty in this forum and the Spirituality forum.
    It was clear (as confirmed by surveys outside RHP) that Americans approve more
    than Europeans of the death penalty.
  7. Zugzwang
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    10 Jul '19 22:032 edits
    @sh76 said
    I can't speak for No1, but Tsarnev was convicted under 18 U.S.C. § 2332a – Use of a Weapon of Mass Destruction. This seems to have a much stronger federal connection than the kidnapping and murder of an individual, however reprehensible the latter may be.
    What does or should constitute a 'weapon of mass destruction'?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapon_of_mass_destruction

    "The scope and usage of the term has evolved and been disputed,
    often signifying more politically than technically."

    The Boston Marathon bombing involved two crude home-made explosive devices,
    which killed three people. Why should these bombs be regarded as WMDs
    when some much more lethal weapons used by mass murderers are not?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting

    Stephen Paddock used guns (including assault-type rifles) to kill 58 people.
    But his weapons would not be regarded as WMDs.
    I would submit that Stephen Paddock's arsenal of guns was much more
    dangerous than two crude home-made explosive devices (supposed WMDs).

    "This seems to have a much stronger federal connection ..."
    --Sh76

    Why? It seems to me that a 'federal connection' was based upon the victim
    being from abroad, thus lending the case an international dimension.

    By the way, the Boston Marathon bombing killed Lu Lingzi, a female graduate
    student (in mathematics and statistics) from China.

    "....the kidnapping and murder of an individual."
    --Sh76

    The prosecution's apparently arguing that the death penalty is justified because
    Brendt Christiansen also raped and tortured Zhang Yingying before finally killing her.
  8. Zugzwang
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    10 Jul '19 22:073 edits
    @no1marauder said
    Why should it? Massachusetts is perfectly capable of trying those who commit such acts on its soil. I do not recall any interstate or international aspect of that crime and the primary reason the Feds took that case was to impose the death penalty despite the People in that jurisdiction's determination that no crime warrants it.
    (No1Marauder replied to Sh76.)

    "I do not recall any interstate or international aspect of that crime ..."
    --No1Marauder

    An 'international aspect' of the Boston Marathon bombing was the murder of
    Lu Lingzi, a female graduate student (in mathematics and statistics) from China.
    (Her death apparently was the least publicized--of the three--in the US media.
    I would hardly expect No1Marauder to remember it.)

    Her family and supporters have started a foundation (based in Massachusetts) in her memory.

    https://lingzifoundation.org/
  9. Zugzwang
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    10 Jul '19 22:242 edits
    https://news.wttw.com/2019/07/09/brendt-christensen-breaks-down-emotional-testimony-yingying-zhang-family

    "Christensen Breaks Down During Emotional Testimony from Yingying Zhang’s Family"

    "As he looked down at a photo of his daughter, Yingying, just before she left for
    the U.S. – the last time he saw her alive – Ronggao Zhang could not contain himself.
    He turned away, inhaled sharply and began crying on the witness stand."

    "Minutes later, a female juror stood and exited the courtroom while crying as the
    court watched pre-recorded testimony from Zhang’s mother, Lifeng Ye, describing
    how she wanted to be a grandmother.

    U.S District Court Judge James Shadid immediately called for a brief recess to let the juror
    collect herself. After individual questioning in chambers, she was allowed to remain on the jury."

    "Zhang’s parents said they’ve fallen into a deep depression and have barely slept
    in the two years since she was last seen alive."

    "On top of testimony, jurors also heard clips from several phone calls Christensen made
    while in prison in which he continued to claim his innocence, months after his arrest.
    Prosecutors claim this shows his lack of remorse over the killing."

    "Yingying Zhang’s fiance Xiaolin Hou wrapped up his testimony, telling
    jurors that losing Zhang “totally changed the track of my life.”
    “(It) took away the most important person in my 30 years of life,” he said.
    Hou also spoke about the impact Zhang’s death has had on her family, particularly
    her parents, who were both poor and received little education growing up.
    They pinned their hopes for a brighter future on their only daughter."

    The prosecution apparently has succeeded in humanizing the Chinese victim,
    Zhang Yingying, in the perceptions of at least some jurors.
  10. Zugzwang
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    11 Jul '19 01:05
    @duchess64 said
    https://news.wttw.com/2019/07/09/brendt-christensen-breaks-down-emotional-testimony-yingying-zhang-family

    "Christensen Breaks Down During Emotional Testimony from Yingying Zhang’s Family"

    "As he looked down at a photo of his daughter, Yingying, just before she left for
    the U.S. – the last time he saw her alive – Ronggao Zhang could not contain himself.
    He turned a ...[text shortened]... eeded in humanizing the Chinese victim,
    Zhang Yingying, in the perceptions of at least some jurors.
    Does the 'thumbs down' come from a racist troll who objects to the prosecution
    trying to humanize the Chinese victim in the perceptions of the American jury?
  11. Joined
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    11 Jul '19 01:16
    @duchess64 said
    "Another possible defense strategy could be to appeal to any racism among jurors..."
    --Duchess64

    Can the nearly illiterate Mchill explain why he misinterpreted my statement as
    equivalent to claiming that I know that this jury MUST be racist?

    Regarding the aftermath of the murder of Zhang Yingying, the issue was NOT so
    much that ethnic Chinese are being oppressed ...[text shortened]... e to fear of crime.
    But people should be aware of the risks before making a well-informed decision.
    quite a few of us would be quite happy if you just stayed away.
  12. Joined
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    11 Jul '19 01:25
    @duchess64 said
    Most Europeans here seem to regard the death penalty as wrong under all circumstances.
    Most Americans here seem to approve of the death penalty.

    In June 2017, Zhang Yingying, a 26 year old Chinese woman who
    was a visiting scholar at the University of Illinois, disappeared.
    Brendt Christiansen (who had worked at the university) was arrested a few weeks later.
    It's a ...[text shortened]... on time, but less than a life sentence
    E) no prison time (de facto acquittal by jury nullification)
    Dang. I commend you. The majority of the morons is the US have no idea what jury nullification is. Not in this case tho. Just for unjust laws. (drugs etc.) He needs death or min. life w/o parole.
  13. Joined
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    11 Jul '19 01:26
    @duchess64 said
    Tobias9122 (an apparently new writer) should not keep acting as if the RHP forums
    do not have years of history before he began to read them.

    Based upon earlier threads about the death penalty in this forum and the Spirituality forum.
    It was clear (as confirmed by surveys outside RHP) that Americans approve more
    than Europeans of the death penalty.
    Lol, great try, exactly when do you think I started to read these things... as I stated before, I have been here for awhile.. told FMF I came here looking for the wise men, he said I was in the wrong place, I understand his opinion... but there are some good cases to look at here.... you being perhaps one of the more interesting. change an internet provider come back as whom ever you wish. THINK
  14. Joined
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    11 Jul '19 01:30
    @duchess64 said
    Does the 'thumbs down' come from a racist troll who objects to the prosecution
    trying to humanize the Chinese victim in the perceptions of the American jury?
    and why would that bother you?
    You are a classic narcissist, it's an obvious conclusion.
  15. Zugzwang
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    11 Jul '19 01:361 edit
    @tobias9122 said
    quite a few of us would be quite happy if you just stayed away.
    Many hateful racist or sexist men become agitated when anyone dares to point out their racism or sexism.
    Many liars become agitated when anyone dares to cite evidence to prove that they are lying.
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