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Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
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    18 Jun '19 22:19
    @duchess64 said
    The racist troll Mott-the-Hoopie ignores the fact that a rich white woman is much less
    likely than a poor black man to be executed WHEN convicted of the similar crime of murder.

    In the USA, it's much less common for a white person to be executed when convicted
    of murdering only non-white people than for a non-white person to be executed
    when convicted of murdering any white people.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/18/los-angeles-death-penalty-sentences-jackie-lacey

    "In Los Angeles, only people of color are sentenced to death
    The county’s prosecutor has won death sentences for 22 defendants,
    none of them white, report shows."

    "Under Lacey’s tenure, which began in 2012, zero white defendants have been
    sentenced to death, and her capital punishment sentences disproportionately
    targeted cases involving white victims. Although 12% of homicide victims in LA
    county are white, 36% of Lacey’s death penalty wins involved white victims.
    Of the 22 defendants sentenced under Lacey, 13 were Latino, eight were black and one was Asian."

    "Lacey has also faced intense scrutiny for her refusal to prosecute police officers
    who kill civilians, even in the most egregious circumstances."
  2. Zugzwang
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    18 Jun '19 22:29
    https://news.wttw.com/2019/06/17/brendt-christensen-researched-rape-fantasies-kidnapping-chinese-scholar

    "Brendt Christensen Researched Rape Fantasies Before Kidnapping Scholar"

    "“I want to test my limits and experience everything,” he wrote in his profile on
    Fetlife.com, a social media site for adults with alternative sexual interests.
    He repeatedly read posts on that site about kidnapping and rape fantasies with
    titles like “abduction play,” “perfect abduction fantasy” and “abduction 101.”"

    "Christensen detailed to the woman [his girlfriend] how he raped and brutalized
    the visiting scholar before killing her and disposing of her body."
    [This was all recorded on audiotape.]

    There has been some speculation that the defense intends to deny that Brendt
    Christiansen raped Zhang Yingying, perhaps claiming that she consented to have
    sexual intercourse with him. If so, how gullible (or prejudiced) would a jury have
    to be to believe that a Chinese woman (with a steady Chinese boyfriend) would eagerly
    get into a stranger's car so she could willingly have sex with any white American man?
    That may be a popular white male fantasy, but would an American jury buy it as real?
  3. Standard memberDeepThought
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    19 Jun '19 01:59
    @no1marauder said
    Interestingly, the SCOTUS announced a decision a few hours ago bearing on this point:

    The Supreme Court on Monday said a person can be charged and tried in state and federal court for the same conduct without running afoul to the double jeopardy clause of the US Constitution because state and federal governments are separate sovereigns.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/1 ...[text shortened]... 6_d18e.pdf

    It reaffirms the "dual sovereignty" rule which the SCOTUS has adopted since the 1840s.
    That's interesting. A British subject can be tried by British courts for crimes committed abroad. However, normally the country that the crime was committed in will try the crime and hand down whatever the local punishment is. When someone has already been tried by a completely independent authority the British state normally does not try them a second time. I don't know if that is a hard and fast rule related to double jeopardy, which in any case no longer exists for some serious offences, or just policy.
  4. Zugzwang
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    19 Jun '19 03:43
    @deepthought said
    That's interesting. A British subject can be tried by British courts for crimes committed abroad. However, normally the country that the crime was committed in will try the crime and hand down whatever the local punishment is. When someone has already been tried by a completely independent authority the British state normally does not try them a second time. I don't k ...[text shortened]... ed to double jeopardy, which in any case no longer exists for some serious offences, or just policy.
    (DeepThought replied to No1Marauder.)

    I suspect that if a UK citizen were tried for terrorism in, say, Iraq and acquitted,
    then the UK government may seek his extradition to be tried in the UK for terrorism.
  5. Germany
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    19 Jun '19 06:42
    Trump recently re-affirmed his position that the five innocent people once suspected in the Central Park rape case should be put to death. Thoughts from pro-death penalty advocates?
  6. Zugzwang
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    19 Jun '19 07:371 edit
    @kazetnagorra said
    Trump recently re-affirmed his position that the five innocent people once suspected in the Central Park rape case should be put to death. Thoughts from pro-death penalty advocates?
    This post does not necessarily imply that I am a 'death penalty advocate,'.

    Does Donald Trump's opinion have any philosophical or even legal relevance?

    There may be bloodthirsty advocates of the death penalty. Their existence
    does not necessarily invalidate arguments.

    Few, if any, people here have made more than a vague attempt, if that, to explain
    why they support or oppose the death penalty.
    It's the usual arrogant 'moral proof by assertion,'.
  7. SubscriberWajoma
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    19 Jun '19 11:31
    @duchess64 said
    This post does not necessarily imply that I am a 'death penalty advocate,'.

    Does Donald Trump's opinion have any philosophical or even legal relevance?

    There may be bloodthirsty advocates of the death penalty. Their existence
    does not necessarily invalidate arguments.

    Few, if any, people here have made more than a vague attempt, if that, to explain
    why they support or oppose the death penalty.
    It's the usual arrogant 'moral proof by assertion,'.
    Totally opposed on the grounds it is torture, what the human mind must go through the moment they're sentenced to death, then the count down, days, hours, minutes. The role of the state is to protect you from me, and me from you. It is not to torture and torment in the name of some kind of twisted revenge fantasy. People that have a record of not respecting the rights of others have some of theirs taken from them, they are removed from society where they are likely to cause harm and that is all.
  8. Zugzwang
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    19 Jun '19 13:481 edit
    @duchess64 said
    This post does not necessarily imply that I am a 'death penalty advocate,'.

    Does Donald Trump's opinion have any philosophical or even legal relevance?

    There may be bloodthirsty advocates of the death penalty. Their existence
    does not necessarily invalidate arguments.

    Few, if any, people here have made more than a vague attempt, if that, to explain
    why they support or oppose the death penalty.
    It's the usual arrogant 'moral proof by assertion,'.
    In a thread about vegetarianism, someone mentions that Hitler was a vegetarian.
    So what? Is that supposed to invalidate vegetarianism?
  9. Zugzwang
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    19 Jun '19 13:54
    @wajoma said
    Totally opposed on the grounds it is torture, what the human mind must go through the moment they're sentenced to death, then the count down, days, hours, minutes. The role of the state is to protect you from me, and me from you. It is not to torture and torment in the name of some kind of twisted revenge fantasy. People that have a record of not respecting the rights of ot ...[text shortened]... taken from them, they are removed from society where they are likely to cause harm and that is all.
    Wajoma regards the death penalty as too cruel or inhumane. That's a subjective judgment.

    How would the pain of a convicted murderer awaiting execution supposedly
    be worse than that of a person dying painfully of a terminal illness?
    I have known some innocent persons who died young and painfully from illness.
  10. Germany
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    19 Jun '19 14:22
    @duchess64 said
    This post does not necessarily imply that I am a 'death penalty advocate,'.

    Does Donald Trump's opinion have any philosophical or even legal relevance?

    There may be bloodthirsty advocates of the death penalty. Their existence
    does not necessarily invalidate arguments.

    Few, if any, people here have made more than a vague attempt, if that, to explain
    why they support or oppose the death penalty.
    It's the usual arrogant 'moral proof by assertion,'.
    To be clear, I don't particularly value Donald Trump's philosophical and moral insights. But many of the contributors here have endorsed Donald Trump's abhorrent position on the death penalty. In my view, it is a good illustration of one of the problems with the death penalty: that miscarriages of justice cannot be (even if only partially) amended.
  11. Zugzwang
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    19 Jun '19 14:37
    @kazetnagorra said
    To be clear, I don't particularly value Donald Trump's philosophical and moral insights. But many of the contributors here have endorsed Donald Trump's abhorrent position on the death penalty. In my view, it is a good illustration of one of the problems with the death penalty: that miscarriages of justice cannot be (even if only partially) amended.
    We concur that Donald Trump's morally despicable. But he has no power
    to order a lawful execution, though he may issue executive orders that kill people abroad.

    In this case, there should be no doubt that Brendt Christiansen killed Zhang Yingying.
    His defense seems intent upon disputing how brutally he murdered her.
  12. Subscriberno1marauder
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    19 Jun '19 15:05
    @duchess64 said
    We concur that Donald Trump's morally despicable. But he has no power
    to order a lawful execution, though he may issue executive orders that kill people abroad.

    In this case, there should be no doubt that Brendt Christiansen killed Zhang Yingying.
    His defense seems intent upon disputing how brutally he murdered her.
    Waiting for the defense's actual case might be wiser than screeching outrage over what it might be.
  13. Zugzwang
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    19 Jun '19 20:173 edits
    @no1marauder said
    Waiting for the defense's actual case might be wiser than screeching outrage over what it might be.
    The hateful No1Marauder keeps lying and hurling insults as usual.

    "In this case, there should be no doubt that Brendt Christiansen killed Zhang Yingying.
    His defense seems intent upon disputing how brutally he murdered her."
    --Duchess64

    Where's the alleged "screeching outrage over what it might be"?
    What I wrote is a concise accurate summary of US media coverage.

    Would No1Marauder like to deny that his defense conceded in its opening statement
    (which technically is not evidence) that Brendt Christiansen killed Zhang Yingying?

    About all the commentary on this case has been the defense's hope to avoid the
    death penalty by disputing or minimizing the alleged brutality with which Brendt Christiansen
    killed Zhang Yingying. I accurately summarized that commentary in my statement.

    Would No1Marauder, if he were the defense lawyer, like to claim that Brendt Christiansen
    accidentally, gently, and humanely, killed Zhang Yingying during consensual sexual intercourse?

    Given that it's rare in the USA for any white person to be executed for killing only non-white people,
    Brendt Christiansen would appear to have a high chance of avoiding the death penalty.
    No1Marauder need not lose much sleep over that happening to his fellow white man.

    The lying troll No1Marauder's obsessive hatred of me and about everything that I
    write obviously influences him to keep lying shamelessly about me and what I write.
  14. Zugzwang
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    19 Jun '19 20:281 edit
    https://abc7chicago.com/brendt-christensen-u-of-i-case-turns-on-the-footprint-of-a-killer/5350723/

    "Brendt Christensen U of I case turns on the footprint of a killer"

    Would No1Marauder like to sue, on behalf of Brendt Christiansen, the news
    source for calling him a 'killer' rather than an 'alleged killer'?

    "In a murder case with no body and no fingerprints, there are footprints.
    Digital footprints. And lots of them.

    Ex-University of Illinois grad student Brendt Christensen was an avid researcher of
    torture techniques, perversion, murder and human disposal according to a federal
    agent who testified today at Christensen's trial in downstate Peoria."

    "In one post on the site found by the FBI Christensen wrote to another Fetlife user:
    "I'd bind you, gag you, and likely put you in a duffel bag so no one could see you."

    It may be no coincidence that Christensen actually bought a 6-foot long "super
    tough heavyweight" duffle bag on Amazon just days before he kidnapped Zhang.
    That oversized duffle bag has never been found."

    According to another news source, the defense has argued that it was all mere coincidence
    that Brendt Christiansen visited many websites about abduction or rape fantasies,
    which should not be construed as any evidence of his state of mind.
    (No1Marauder might be eager to believe that defense argument.)
  15. SubscriberWajoma
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    19 Jun '19 20:35
    @duchess64 said
    Wajoma regards the death penalty as too cruel or inhumane. That's a subjective judgment.

    How would the pain of a convicted murderer awaiting execution supposedly
    be worse than that of a person dying painfully of a terminal illness?
    I have known some innocent persons who died young and painfully from illness.
    At present beyond human control D. Do you see the difference.

    My sister's and I nursed our father through his last few weeks of luekimia, so very aware of what a person goes through, it is hard on all concerned.
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