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Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
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    06 Jul '19 02:46
    In the absence of her remains, a memorial stone to Zhang Yingying (with her
    name in Chinese and English) has been placed at the University of Illinois.

    https://news.wttw.com/2019/07/05/brendt-christensen-trial-life-or-death-sentence

    "Life or Death: What’s Next in Trial of Brendt Christensen"

    "“Any factor that any juror finds to be mitigating, all of them must consider and
    weigh in mitigation,” Dunham said. “None of them can consider aggravating
    factors that are not unanimously agreed upon.”

    Additionally, all jurors must decide if an aggravating factor was proven beyond a
    reasonable doubt before it can be considered. But mitigating factors are permissible
    simply by a “preponderance of the evidence,” meaning they’re more likely than not to be true.
    And then, of course, they must issue their decision. A death sentence can only be
    reached unanimously – even a single holdout would result in a life sentence."

    Given these very high legal barriers, it seems likely that Brendt Christiansen will
    avoid the death penalty even if he does not express any remorse whatsoever.
    In the USA, it's rare for any white person to be executed for killing only non-white people.
  2. Subscriberno1marauder
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    06 Jul '19 14:39
    @duchess64 said
    In the absence of her remains, a memorial stone to Zhang Yingying (with her
    name in Chinese and English) has been placed at the University of Illinois.

    https://news.wttw.com/2019/07/05/brendt-christensen-trial-life-or-death-sentence

    "Life or Death: What’s Next in Trial of Brendt Christensen"

    "“Any factor that any juror finds to be mitigating, all of them must cons ...[text shortened]... oever.
    In the USA, it's rare for any white person to be executed for killing only non-white people.
    A jury that found the defendant guilty after less than two hours of deliberations is highly unlikely not to impose a sentence of death in the penalty phase.
  3. Zugzwang
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    06 Jul '19 20:462 edits
    @no1marauder said
    A jury that found the defendant guilty after less than two hours of deliberations is highly unlikely not to impose a sentence of death in the penalty phase.
    First of all, even the defense lawyers conceded in their opening statement that Brendt Christiansen
    killed Zhang Yingying, so there was no reasonable doubt that he was not factually innocent.
    For how many days did No1Marauder expect the jury to 'agonize' over their 'difficult' decision?

    Second, as No1Marauder should well know, the penalty phase is a separate trial,
    with different factors to be considered, such as aggravating and mitigating evidence.
    As less biased lawyers than No1Marauder have pointed out, there are high legal
    barriers against a death sentence.

    By the way, the victim's parents have stated that, while they personally prefer a
    death sentence, they have respected the decisions made by the federal prosecution
    in how to negotiate with Brendt Christiansen's defense.

    Now that Brendt Christiansen has been convicted by an American jury, will the
    defense lawyer No1Marauder start to refer to him as a 'murderer'?

    I would be surprised if any white person here approved of executing Brendt
    Christiansen for abducting, raping, torturing, and murdering Zhang Yingying.
    I would expect more than a few white people here to approve of executing
    a non-white man for similar crimes against a white woman.

    No1Marauder may take comfort in knowing that it's rare in the USA for any white
    person to be executed for killing only non-white people. I would expect Brendt Christiansen
    to grow old in prison, where No1Marauder's free to send him notes of sympathy.
    In the meantime, Zhang Yingying's parents may grow old and die without ever
    knowing where Brendt Christiansen put their murdered daughter's remains.
  4. Subscriberno1marauder
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    06 Jul '19 22:41
    @duchess64 said
    First of all, even the defense lawyers conceded in their opening statement that Brendt Christiansen
    killed Zhang Yingying, so there was no reasonable doubt that he was not factually innocent.
    For how many days did No1Marauder expect the jury to 'agonize' over their 'difficult' decision?

    Second, as No1Marauder should well know, the penalty phase is a separate trial,
    wi ...[text shortened]... w old and die without ever
    knowing where Brendt Christiansen put their murdered daughter's remains.
    Your racist ravings aside, I will be very surprised if he doesn't get the death penalty.
  5. Zugzwang
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    06 Jul '19 22:561 edit
    @no1marauder said
    Your racist ravings aside, I will be very surprised if he doesn't get the death penalty.
    Does the hateful racist troll No1Marauder dispute this factually accurate statement?
    "It's rare in the USA for any white person to be executed for killing only non-white people."
    --Duchess64

    In fact, it's well-known that death sentences are influenced by considerations of 'race'.

    https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions/executions-overview/executions-by-race-and-race-of-victim

    "Executions by Race and Race of the Victim"

    "In 82% of the stud­ies [reviewed], race of the vic­tim was found to influ­ence the
    like­li­hood of being charged with cap­i­tal mur­der or receiv­ing the death penal­ty,
    i.e., those who mur­dered whites were found more like­ly to be sen­tenced to death
    than those who mur­dered blacks.”

    "Persons Executed for Interracial Murders in the U.S. Since 1976
    The cases represented here are cases of one defendant executed for the murder
    of one or more victims of one race. Cases involving multiple victims of several
    different races are not included here.

    White Defendant / Black Victim (21)
    Black Defendant / White Victim (290)"

    There were approximately 14 times more black people executed for murdering
    only white people than white people executed for murdering only black people.

    Does No1Marauder deny that racism influences death sentences in the USA?
    Will not the lying racist troll No1Marauder keep lying, hoping to appeal to endemic racism?

    No1Marauder could attempt to console himself by attempting to make Brendt Christiansen
    (another white man) into someone allegedly 'martyred' by the US justice system.
  6. Subscriberno1marauder
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    06 Jul '19 23:022 edits
    @duchess64 said
    Does the hateful racist troll No1Marauder dispute this factually accurate statement?
    "It's rare in the USA for any white person to be executed for killing only non-white people."
    --Duchess64

    In fact, it's well-known that death sentences are influenced by considerations of 'race'.

    https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions/executions-overview/executions-by-race-and-rac ...[text shortened]... Brendt Christiansen
    (another white man) into someone allegedly 'martyred' by the US justice system.
    Certainly that used to be true. But the data you are relying on is no more recent than 1990. I'd be curious to see what the numbers are as to death penalty sentences in the last 10 years; do you have such information available?

    BTW, this will be my last post responding if you don't stop with the childish insults and trolling. If you want to have a serious discussion, stop acting like an idiot.

    EDIT: I see that your link does make it possible to limit time periods. I'll take a more detailed look.
  7. Zugzwang
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    06 Jul '19 23:132 edits
    @no1marauder said
    Certainly that used to be true. But the data you are relying on is no more recent than 1990. I'd be curious to see what the numbers are as to death penalty sentences in the last 10 years; do you have such information available?

    BTW, this will be my last post responding if you don't stop with the childish insults and trolling. If you want to have a serious discussion, stop acting like an idiot.
    The hateful racist troll No1Marauder blatantly LIES about the article that I cited.

    "But the data you are relying on is no more recent than 1990."
    --No1Marauder

    Obviously FALSE. In fact, the data was collected as recently as 31 May 2019.

    https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions/executions-overview/executions-by-race-and-race-of-victim

    ONLY this quoted statement comes from 1990.
    "In 82% of the stud­ies [reviewed], race of the vic­tim was found to influ­ence the
    like­li­hood of being charged with cap­i­tal mur­der or receiv­ing the death penal­ty,
    i.e., those who mur­dered whites were found more like­ly to be sen­tenced to death
    than those who mur­dered blacks.”
    – United States General Accounting Office, Death Penalty Sentencing, February 1990

    In fact, the data clearly comes from 1977 to 2019 (this year).
    "Date Range 1/17/1977 to 5/31/2019"
    That's a period of more than 42 years.

    Would No1Marauder like to argue that data collected as recently as 31 May 2019
    must already be obsolete and irrelevant by July 2019?

    How much lying will the racist troll No1Marauder do in attempting to deny or
    minimize the guilt and punishment of Brendt Christiansen (another white man)?
  8. Zugzwang
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    06 Jul '19 23:21
    Given No1Marauder's apparent sympathy for Brendt Christiansen (whom he always
    has refused to call a 'murderer', even after being convicted), should not No1Marauder
    prefer to offer his services or donate money to Brendt Christiansen's defense
    rather than to spew lies here on his behalf?

    Would not Brendt Christiansen appreciate No1Marauder's advice and support?
  9. Subscriberno1marauder
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    06 Jul '19 23:261 edit
    OK, since 2009 193 whites have been executed, 170 or 88% for killing other whites. Using 2011 homicide numbers, there were 2,904 murders where the offender was white and 2,630 of those murders or 90% had white victims. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6

    So recent stats don't support your claim.

    EDIT: I won't respond to the above screechings in any detailed way except to say I didn't lie as my edit above made clear but merely was a bit careless in checking out the link. That error has been corrected.
  10. Zugzwang
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    06 Jul '19 23:343 edits
    @no1marauder said
    OK, since 2009 193 whites have been executed, 170 or 88% for killing other whites. Using 2011 homicide numbers, there were 2,904 murders where the offender was white and 2,630 of those murders or 90% had white victims. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6

    So recent stats don't support your claim.
    First, note that the lying racist troll No1Marauder refuses to concede that he blatantly LIED.

    ""But the data you are relying on is no more recent than 1990."
    --No1Marauder

    Obviously FALSE. In fact, the data was collected as recently as 31 May 2019.
    ""Date Range 1/17/1977 to 5/31/2019"

    Then note that No1Marauder flagrantly dishonestly distorts what I wrote (below)
    and sets up an absurd strawman to attack.

    "It's rare in the USA for any white person to be executed for killing only non-white people."
    --Duchess64

    ALL of No1Marauder's blather about 'white victims' is IRRELEVANT to what I wrote.
    I am writing about white people being executed for killing ONLY NON-WHITE people.

    Here's No1Marauder's IRRELEVANT blather about 'white victims':
    "OK, since 2009 193 whites have been executed, 170 or 88% for killing other whites.
    Using 2011 homicide numbers, there were 2,904 murders where the offender
    was white and 2,630 of those murders or 90% had white victims. "
    --No1Marauder

    The lying racist troll No1Marauder keeps showing that he's a PATHOLOGICAL LIAR.
    No1Marauder hopes to appeal to the most racist or deceive the most gullible.
  11. Subscriberno1marauder
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    06 Jul '19 23:41
    It seems "rare" because it is statistically rare for a white to kill a non-white person, but the stats I gave taken from Duchy's own link and FBI homicide reports show that in the last ten years a white who killed a non-white had a slightly larger chance of being executed than a white who killed a white.

    That pretty much ends this "debate" though not the hysterical and contemptible trolling and flame warring that the person who started this thread cannot seem to stop herself from engaging in.



    '
  12. Zugzwang
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    07 Jul '19 00:13
    @no1marauder said
    It seems "rare" because it is statistically rare for a white to kill a non-white person, but the stats I gave taken from Duchy's own link and FBI homicide reports show that in the last ten years a white who killed a non-white had a slightly larger chance of being executed than a white who killed a white.

    That pretty much ends this "debate" though not the hysterical and ...[text shortened]... rring that the person who started this thread cannot seem to stop herself from engaging in.



    '
    The lying racist troll No1Marauder shows his eagerness to 'cherry pick' (at best) data
    in attempting to deny that racism could influence sentencing in the US justice system.

    "It's rare in the USA for any white person to be executed for killing only non-white people."
    --Duchess64

    The racist troll No1Marauder absurdly attacked my factually accurate statement as 'racist'.

    In fact, as I already stated, from 1977 to 2019, only 21 white people were executed
    for killing only black people. (That's about one for every two years.) It's possible
    that a few more white people were executed for killing only non-black non-white people.

    I expect that there are no limits to No1Marauder's tireless lying when he attempts
    as EXPEDIENT to deny the existence of racism (as in the criminal justice system) or
    to exaggerate it (as about only black Americans in affirmative action).
  13. Zugzwang
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    08 Jul '19 23:151 edit
    @suzianne said
    Will there be sentencing hearings, where the victim's family can speak out?

    Probably the week before, since the 8th is a Monday.
    While at least several writers here have apparently expressed their concern over
    Brendt Christiansen's potential suffering, Suzianne's the only writer here so far
    to show any concern whatsoever over his victim's family's suffering.

    Brendt Christiansen's defense had attempted to delay or deny the presentation of
    evidence relating to Zhang Yingying's life and what she meant to her family and friends.

    https://news.wttw.com/2019/07/08/brendt-christensen-sentencing-underway-yingying-zhang-murder-case

    "She Was the Hope of Her Family’: Sentencing Underway in Yingying Zhang Murder Case"

    "The prosecution on Monday presented pre-taped video testimony from a handful
    of Zhang’s friends and roommates who lived with her while she studied at
    Sun Yat-sen University and Peking University in China before moving to Illinois
    to continue her education in 2017.

    They described her as brave and smart, approachable and intelligent.
    She had a sunny disposition and left the impression she was a “free spirit.”
    Her fiance, Xiaolin Hou, who testified in person Monday and has been in court
    throughout the trial, called Zhang the best person he’d ever met.

    But one of those friends, Lisha Fang, worried about Zhang’s safety in the U.S.
    She tried to talk Zhang out of moving, saying she was “rather innocent” and “too kind.”"

    Zhang Yingying's innocence came to a sudden brutal end at the hands of her American rapist and murderer.

    While it may be hard to convince white Americans to perceive Zhang Yingying
    as an individual human being rather than as just a narrow racial stereotype, the
    prosecution's must try to humanize her and present her, not Brendt Christiansen
    (who seems fully supported by his family) as someone deserving of the jury's empathy.
  14. Zugzwang
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    09 Jul '19 21:51
    @no1marauder said
    IMO, Brendt Christiansen, scumbag though he might be, shouldn't be facing the death penalty. The State of Illinois abolished the death penalty in 2011 after having a moratorium on executions since 1999. The Federal grounds for this case are flimsy and pretextual (it's not even technically a murder case):

    On July 12, a federal grand jury formally indicted Brendt Christe ...[text shortened]... ere prosecution of crimes is left to the States and localities absent a compelling Federal interest.
    In 2015, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev (a Chechen immigrant) was sentenced to death after
    being convicted in a federal trial for crimes that took place only in Massachusetts,
    which has no death penalty.

    As far as I can recall, No1Maruder did not object to that death sentence.
  15. Zugzwang
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    09 Jul '19 21:571 edit
    https://wgntv.com/2019/07/08/jury-to-consider-death-penalty-in-chinese-scholar-killing-2/

    "Prosecutor says death penalty warranted in Yingying Zhang’s killing"

    ""It was cold, calculated, cruel and months in the making," Assistant
    U.S. Attorney James Nelson told jurors on Monday afternoon.

    Reminding jurors that Brendt Christensen has never revealed what he did with
    Yingying Zhang's body after he brutally killed and decapitated her in June of 2017,
    Nelson spoke of what that has meant to the still-suffering family of the young woman."

    "Prosecutors have already during trial told jurors that Christensen in June 2017
    kidnapped Zhang from a bus stop, took her into his apartment in a duffel bag where
    he raped, stabbed and choked her before beating her to death with a baseball bat.
    They could use that information to show Christensen's meticulous planning of the
    crime and how he even seemed to express pride in what he had done to argue for
    the death penalty — something Zhang's family members already have said they support.

    On Monday, the judge also said he would allow jurors to hear a recording of a phone
    call that Christensen made from jail. Prosecutors told the judge Monday that Christensen
    asserts his innocence — something The (Champaign) News-Gazette reports that
    prosecutors want jurors to hear because they believe it shows Christensen's lack of remorse."

    Brendt Christiansen's defense finally dropped the longstanding claim of innocence
    when it became obvious enough that it could not convince the jury to believe it.

    At their own expense (though they may have had funds raised on their behalf),
    Zhang Yingying's family and fiancé (who are far from wealthy) have traveled to
    the USA in order to attend the trial.
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