Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
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    16 Mar '17 21:061 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Guilty until priven innocent.

    Libtard justice.
    You should have your father put in jail instead of taking it out on strangers.
    The abusive lying troll Eladar has already long shown that he's a rape apologist.
    I already have written that I have no specific knowledge about Eladar raping someone.
    Given his published attitude toward rape, however, Eladar's uncorroborated denial may lack credibility.
  2. Joined
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    16 Mar '17 21:12
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    The abusive lying troll Eladar has already long shown that he's a rape apologist.
    I already have written that I have no specific knowledge about Eladar raping someone.
    Given his published attitude toward rape, however, Eladar's uncorroborated denial may lack credibility.
    Your experience with other family members makes your views on rape unrealistic. You fantasize and come up with wild claims about many people on the board.
  3. Standard membershavixmir
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    16 Mar '17 21:30
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    "A couple goes out and gets drunk. She passes out and the boyfriend has sex with her anyhow.
    Sounds like something that might happen and most people would not consider rape."
    --Eladar

    Regardless of Eladar's uncorroborated denial of his personal actions, it's clear that
    *if* Eladar did it, then he would *not* regard it as rape or as wrong, legally or morally.
    Well, all thw goading (is that a word) aside, what do you think of the actions mentioned in the OP?
  4. Joined
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    16 Mar '17 21:34
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    The abusive lying troll Eladar has already long shown that he's a rape apologist.
    I already have written that I have no specific knowledge about Eladar raping someone.
    Given his published attitude toward rape, however, Eladar's uncorroborated denial may lack credibility.
    I believe you hit a new low, and for someone with as little character as you, that is fairly impressive. You believe someone who has never been accused of a crime lacks credibility when he denies an incident when there is no person who even claims to be raped and zero evidence that a rape or any crime occured. For you rape accusations are merely a witch hunt to criticize those you do not like. By your standard Eladar could be convicted of rape every person in the solar system from the beginning to the end of time -- an impressive feat.
  5. Zugzwang
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    16 Mar '17 21:44
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Well, all thw goading (is that a word) aside, what do you think of the actions mentioned in the OP?
    I don't object to this rapist and this victim speaking honestly about their personal experiences.
    My concern would be about ignorant people extrapolating their experiences onto other rapists and victims.
  6. Zugzwang
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    16 Mar '17 21:503 edits
    Originally posted by quackquack
    I believe you hit a new low, and for someone with as little character as you, that is fairly impressive. You believe someone who has never been accused of a crime lacks credibility when he denies an incident when there is no person who even claims to be raped and zero evidence that a rape or any crime occured. For you rape accusations are merely a witch ...[text shortened]... pe every person in the solar system from the beginning to the end of time -- an impressive feat.
    The nearly illiterate troll and rape apologist Quackquack keeps lying. I have *not* accused Eladar of rape.
    If anything, Shavixmir has come much closer than I to making that accusation.
    All that I have done is this:
    1) Accurately quote Eladar's rape apologist statements.
    2) Point out that Eladar's personal claims, including his denial of rape, are unoorroborated.

    I expect the rape apologist Quackquack to keep hurling insults and lies to attack me personally.
    That cannot change the fact that I accurately *quoted in context* (and almost in its entirety)
    Quackquack's long dispute with (mostly) No1Marauder and other writers about a rape case.
    So readers (I already know that some are far from open-minded) are free to read exactly what
    Quackquack, No1Marauder, and I wrote and decide for themselves if Quackquack's right.

    The pathological liar and abusive troll Quackquack reiterates his cherished lie that
    'I was sexually molested by my father'. I never wrote that, and it never happened.
    If my father were still alive and the cowardly troll Quackquack revealed his real identity,
    then Quackquack could face a lawsuit for libel.

    Quackquack keeps showing that he's one of the most morally despicable abusive trolls at RHP

    "On this forum we have several rape apologists (if not actual rapists) such as Eladar,
    Normbenign and Quackquack."
    --KazetNagorra (to Sh76)

    So KazetNagorra regards Eladar and Quackquack as "rape apologists (if not actual rapists)."
  7. Standard membershavixmir
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    16 Mar '17 21:52
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    I don't object to this rapist and this victim speaking honestly about their personal experiences.
    My concern would be about ignorant people extrapolating their experiences onto other rapists and victims.
    The article mentions that too, yeah.

    I've thought about it (on and off) for a day now... and honestly, I can't work out if I think it's a good thing or not.

    I mean, for example, would you invite Himmler and an Auswitch survivor to talk at the uni?
    I'm not saying it can't be constructive, but I have to agree (sort of and with much more nuance) with Eledar... why? Why not just arrest the criminal?

    Man... weird article if ever there was one.
  8. Standard membervivify
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    16 Mar '17 22:02
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    The article mentions that too, yeah.

    I've thought about it (on and off) for a day now... and honestly, I can't work out if I think it's a good thing or not.

    I mean, for example, would you invite Himmler and an Auswitch survivor to talk at the uni?
    I'm not saying it can't be constructive, but I have to agree (sort of and with much more nuance) with Eledar... why? Why not just arrest the criminal?

    Man... weird article if ever there was one.
    I think this would be a "bad" thing if such speaking tours become common. Right now, such a tour could serve a useful, educational purpose, depending on how it's handled. Too many such tours would inadvertently minimize the perceived severity of rape.
  9. Zugzwang
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    16 Mar '17 22:06
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    The article mentions that too, yeah.

    I've thought about it (on and off) for a day now... and honestly, I can't work out if I think it's a good thing or not.

    I mean, for example, would you invite Himmler and an Auswitch survivor to talk at the uni?
    I'm not saying it can't be constructive, but I have to agree (sort of and with much more nuance) with Eledar... why? Why not just arrest the criminal?

    Man... weird article if ever there was one.
    If I recall correctly, there have been meetings or discussions (of varying public scope)
    between survivors and former guards at Nazi concentration camps. In an earlier thread,
    I mentioned that a German woman who had been the head guard at Ravensbrueck
    developed postwar friendships with some prisoners there. During the war, she was
    *comparatively* humane toward the prisoners and once disobeyed orders in attempting
    to save a few prisoners' lives and had been dismissed (facing a SS court-martial) for it.

    In some cases, a victim has forgiven her rapist. In some cases, a victim has voluntarily
    (not out of duress due to social pressure) married her rapist and had the marriage last.
  10. Zugzwang
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    16 Mar '17 22:221 edit
    Originally posted by vivify
    You are a moron. I quoted Eladar, not Shavixmir.
    Duchess made a fool of herself yet again.
    Here's Vivify's post in its entirety:
    (The context is that Eladar and Shavixmir have been arguing.)

    "Originally posted by Eladar
    But hey, if it makes you feel better make up lies about other people and pretend they are true.
    It is what people like you do."

    I hate when people like Eladar make up lies and pretend they're true. Thanks for calling him out on it."
    --Vivify

    It's technically true that Vivify's post was *addressed* to Eladar.
    But the last part of Vivify's post apparently *refers* to someone other than Eladar,
    presumably Shavixmir, who was arguing with Eladar.

    "I hate when people like Eladar make up lies and pretend they're true.
    *Thanks for calling him out on it.*"
    --Vivify

    'Him' refers to Eladar, the only possible antecedent for that pronoun in Vivify's text.
    Vivify's comment "Thanks for calling him [Eladar] out on it." would make no sense
    *if* it referred to Eladar. (Why should Vivify thank Eladar for calling himself out about lying?)
    Therefore, Vivify's comment apparently was addressed to the writer arguing with Eladar,
    and that would be Shavixmir.

    So Vivify's post was addressed to Eladar while containing a comment apparently addressed to Shavixmir.

    Has the nearly illiterate Vivify yet grasped the nature of his basic English grammatical error?
  11. Standard membervivify
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    16 Mar '17 22:30
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Here's Vivify's post in its entirety:
    (The context is that Eladar and Shavixmir have been arguing.)

    "Originally posted by Eladar
    But hey, if it makes you feel better make up lies about other people and pretend they are true.
    It is what people like you do."

    I hate when people like Eladar make up lies and pretend they're true. Thanks for calling h ...[text shortened]...
    Has the nearly illiterate Vivify yet grasped the nature of his basic English grammatical error?
    Duchess, who has long displayed autistic qualities, doesn't seem to understand what a joke is, and proves it with that long post which completely misses that it was an obvious joke.

    Eladar, for some reason, quoted himself, then insulted the post he quoted. I responded by agreeing with Eladar calling himself a liar: hence the joke.

    Duchess has long proven herself too dim-witted to understand jokes, or how to convey (or perceive) sarcasm. She's been criticized for this inability before by others. Duchess excels at making herself look like an idiot.
  12. Behind the scenes
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    16 Mar '17 22:34
    Originally posted by quackquack
    If you are interested in what the person has to say, why would you require them to confess their crime and serve their required prison time?
    If you are interested in what the person has to say,

    No, I'm not interested in them at all. Why would you ask this?
  13. Zugzwang
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    16 Mar '17 22:49
    Originally posted by vivify
    Duchess, who has long displayed autistic qualities, doesn't seem to understand what a joke is, and proves it with that long post which completely misses that it was an obvious joke.

    Eladar, for some reason, quoted himself, then insulted the post he quoted. I responded by agreeing with Eladar calling himself a liar: hence the joke.

    Duchess has long pro ...[text shortened]... cized for this inability before by others. Duchess excels at making herself look like an idiot.
    As usual, the troll Vivify distorts the context.
    Here's Eladar's post.

    "Originally posted by Eladar
    I have never done such a thing. I don't even drink."

    But hey, if it makes you feel better make up lies about other people and pretend they are true.
    It is what people like you do."
    --Eladar

    It's technically true that Eladar addressed that post to himself.
    It's also obvious (except to a troll like Vivify) that Eladar simply made a careless slip
    and clicked on the wrong post in the thread when making his reply.

    It's obvious that Eladar was *not* criticizing himself (as the trolling Vivify claims) and
    had intended to address his post to Shavixmir. So, in contrast to the troll Vivify,
    I was not going to beat up Eladar for the posting equivalent of an obvious typo.
  14. Account suspended
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    16 Mar '17 23:001 edit
    Originally posted by vivify
    Duchess, who has long displayed autistic qualities, doesn't seem to understand what a joke is, and proves it with that long post which completely misses that it was an obvious joke.

    Eladar, for some reason, quoted himself, then insulted the post he quoted. I responded by agreeing with Eladar calling himself a liar: hence the joke.

    Duchess has long pro ...[text shortened]... cized for this inability before by others. Duchess excels at making herself look like an idiot.
    If Duchess64 has autistic traits and I think you may be correct, its not her fault and therefore we cannot attach values like idiocy to it. Its not idiocy.
  15. Zugzwang
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    16 Mar '17 23:19
    Thordis Elva (age 16) was raped by Tom Stranger (age 18) in her own bed after a school dance.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/mar/05/can-i-forgive-man-who-raped-me-thordis-trust-elva-thomas-stranger-south-of-forgiveness-extract

    "Can I forgive the man who raped me?
    Thordis Elva was raped aged 16. Years later, she emailed Tom Stranger, the man who
    raped her, beginning a raw, painful healing process documented in their book South of
    Forgiveness. In this extract, they meet to find a way forward "

    "Tom described how he felt deserving of my body that night, without any concern for me,
    and consequently convinced himself that what he did was sex and not rape. The
    following nine years were marked by denial, in which he did his best to outrun the past,
    until I confronted him in a pivotal email that changed our lives for ever.

    I’ve been asked why I didn’t press charges immediately, and the simple answer to that
    question is that I was a 16-year-old girl with naive notions about rape. Rapes were
    committed by armed lunatics, the kind of sensationalised monsters you saw on TV and
    read about in the papers. The fact that Tom wasn’t a monster, but a person who made
    an awful decision, made it harder for me to see his crime for what it was. That way, the
    demonisation of perpetrators in mainstream media got in the way of my recovery. By the
    time I was able to identify what had happened to me as rape, Tom had moved to the
    other side of the planet, far from the jurisdiction of the Icelandic police."
    --Thordis Elva

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/07/qa-icelandic-writer-thordis-elva-defends-forgiving-australian-who-raped-her

    "Q&A: Icelandic writer Thordis Elva defends forgiving Australian who raped her:
    Elva says that, in her case, forgiveness was about letting go of ‘self-blame’ after being raped by Tom Stranger."

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/mar/06/womens-festival-considers-cancelling-event-with-rapist-after-protests

    "Women's festival considers cancelling event with rapist after protests:
    Organisers of discussion between Tom Stranger and his victim Thordis Elva say
    they are mulling the ‘most appropriate way forward’"

    This is an extraordinary story. Few women are brave enough to share their intimate experiences of rape.
    Few women are ready to forgive their rapists. And few men who have *not* been convicted
    of rape are willing to admit in public that they are rapists and speak out amidst ostracism.
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