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Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    17 Mar '17 01:31
    Originally posted by vivify
    I think this would be a "bad" thing if such speaking tours become common. Right now, such a tour could serve a useful, educational purpose, depending on how it's handled. Too many such tours would inadvertently minimize the perceived severity of rape.
    I guess you would like something to fantasize about.

    Might give you a few new moves on your nights out.
  2. Joined
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    17 Mar '17 01:33
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    As usual, the troll Vivify distorts the context.
    Here's Eladar's post.

    "Originally posted by Eladar
    I have never done such a thing. I don't even drink."

    But hey, if it makes you feel better make up lies about other people and pretend they are true.
    It is what people like you do."
    --Eladar

    It's technically true that Eladar addressed that pos ...[text shortened]... troll Vivify,
    I was not going to beat up Eladar for the posting equivalent of an obvious typo.
    How many guys have seen time for doing what I described.

    I am right, most people do not see it as coparable to real rape. You know, the kind of rape leftists appear to want on display.
  3. Zugzwang
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    17 Mar '17 01:371 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    How many guys have seen time for doing what I described.
    I am right, most people do not see it as coparable to real rape. You know, the kind of rape leftists appear to want on display.
    Authorities on crime agree that most rapists never are convicted and punished for rape.
    So does Eladar believe that the fact that most men *can* get away with rape mean that
    all men *should* be able to get away with rape?

    Or would Eladar, who prefers to demonize only Muslim or non-white men as rapists,
    believe that all non-Muslim white men *should* be able to get away with rape?
  4. Joined
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    17 Mar '17 01:38
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Authorities on crime agree that most rapists never are convicted and punished for rape.
    So does Eladar believe that the fact that most men *can* get away with rape mean that
    all men *should* be able to get away with rape?

    Or would Eladar, who prefers to demonize only Muslim or non-white men as rapists,
    believe that all non-Muslim white men *should* be able to get away with rape?
    Find a single case moron
  5. Zugzwang
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    17 Mar '17 01:411 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Find a single case moron
    The idiotic lying troll Eladar ignores the fact that this thread's original post cites the case
    of a man (age 18) who raped--he later admitted it--a girl (age 16) and got away with it.
    He never was even arrested for rape, let alone put on trial for it.

    Thordis Elva (age 16) was raped by Tom Stranger (age 18) in her own bed after a school dance.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/mar/05/can-i-forgive-man-who-raped-me-thordis-trust-elva-thomas-stranger-south-of-forgiveness-extract

    "Can I forgive the man who raped me?
    Thordis Elva was raped aged 16. Years later, she emailed Tom Stranger, the man who
    raped her, beginning a raw, painful healing process documented in their book South of
    Forgiveness. In this extract, they meet to find a way forward "

    "Tom described how he felt deserving of my body that night, without any concern for me,
    and consequently convinced himself that what he did was sex and not rape. The
    following nine years were marked by denial, in which he did his best to outrun the past,
    until I confronted him in a pivotal email that changed our lives for ever.

    I’ve been asked why I didn’t press charges immediately, and the simple answer to that
    question is that I was a 16-year-old girl with naive notions about rape. Rapes were
    committed by armed lunatics, the kind of sensationalised monsters you saw on TV and
    read about in the papers. The fact that Tom wasn’t a monster, but a person who made
    an awful decision, made it harder for me to see his crime for what it was. That way, the
    demonisation of perpetrators in mainstream media got in the way of my recovery. By the
    time I was able to identify what had happened to me as rape, Tom had moved to the
    other side of the planet, far from the jurisdiction of the Icelandic police."
    --Thordis Elva
  6. Joined
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    17 Mar '17 02:03
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    The idiotic lying troll Eladar ignores the fact that this thread's original post cites the case
    of a man (age 18) who raped--he later admitted it--a girl (age 16) and got away with it.
    He never was even arrested for rape, let alone put on trial for it.

    Thordis Elva (age 16) was raped by Tom Stranger (age 18) in her own bed after a school dance.

    ...[text shortened]...
    other side of the planet, far from the jurisdiction of the Icelandic police."
    --Thordis Elva
    Just one.
  7. Zugzwang
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    17 Mar '17 02:08
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Just one.
    Does the idiotic lying troll Eladar claim that there's only one case in all history where
    a man got away with (avoided punishment) raping a woman?

    In fact, two women at RHP have written that they were raped (describing some of the details),
    and I know that their rapists never were arrested.
  8. Subscriberkmax87
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    17 Mar '17 02:091 edit
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    The article mentions that too, yeah.

    I've thought about it (on and off) for a day now... and honestly, I can't work out if I think it's a good thing or not.

    I mean, for example, would you invite Himmler and an Auswitch survivor to talk at the uni?
    I'm not saying it can't be constructive, but I have to agree (sort of and with much more nuance) with Eledar... why? Why not just arrest the criminal?

    Man... weird article if ever there was one.
    Rape is an abuse of power, and in South Africa, during the Apartheid era, the abuse of power by white police and security forces against predominantly black activists was rampant. Yet in the aftermath of Mandela and the ANC being ushered into power the Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC) was put forward as a process by which South Africans could address past injustice and where the perpetrators of violence would stand before their victims or victims families and confess their wrongdoing and be publicly shamed for their actions.

    While the TRC was lauded for having broken the silence about the abuses of power perpetrated by the police and armed forces against mainly black activists, and while many South Africans will say that the TRC was an important step forward in the healing process, there are many who felt that " the TRC had failed to achieve reconciliation between the black and white communities. [because] Most believed that justice was a prerequisite for reconciliation rather than an alternative to it, and that the TRC had been weighted in favour of the perpetrators of abuse. "

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_and_Reconciliation_Commission_(South_Africa)

    There will always be doubt in the minds of many if a rapist was given the chance to address their victim as a means of both victim and perpetrator moving forward and neither being defined by that one event for the rest of their lives. Genuine remorse and true forgiveness are powerful transformative states that can bring peace and resolution into both lives affected by one party's reprehensible behaviour. I suppose it all depends on who is calling for the resolution. If its coming from the victim because they want the perpetrator to fully recognize and acknowledge the impact of their actions in the most public of shaming, then why not, but if the perpetrator sees this as a mechanism by which they can manipulate the victim's need of closure and in the process escape justice, then that's an entirely different thing altogether.
  9. Zugzwang
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    17 Mar '17 02:151 edit
    Originally posted by kmax87 to Shavixmir
    Rape is an abuse of power, and in South Africa, during the Apartheid era, the abuse of power by white police and security forces against predominantly black activists was rampant. Yet in the aftermath of Mandela and the ANC being ushered into power the Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC) was put forward as a process by which South Africans ...[text shortened]... can manipulate the victim's need of closure, then that's an entirely different thing altogether.
    In this case, it's important to note that Thordis Elva and Tom Stranger are *not* speaking
    together in a venue where they have significant inequality in power.
    Thordis Elva's no longer the naive 16 year old girl that she was when Tom Stranger raped her.
    She's become a mature woman and a professional writer, able to explain and defend herself well in words.

    I would be concerned if there were a joint speaking appearance by the rapist who's a
    rich, powerful lawyer and the victim who's a poor naive 16 year old girl because I don't
    believe that it would be a fair contest between them in being able to express their views.
  10. Joined
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    17 Mar '17 12:05
    Originally posted by mchill
    If you are interested in what the person has to say,

    No, I'm not interested in them at all. Why would you ask this?
    You said "a rapist should be given a platform to air his (or in rare cases her) views, ONLY after they've confessed their crime to authorities and served their required prison time"

    So, I am asking why a confession and prison time are a requirement for someone to air their views. If there views are worth hearing, why do we need the trial and punishment first?
  11. Standard membervivify
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    17 Mar '17 12:182 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    If Duchess64 has autistic traits and I think you may be correct, its not her fault and therefore we cannot attach values like idiocy to it. Its not idiocy.
    If she claims to be educated on everything, yet refuses to acknowledge her autism and get help (despite knowing all the signs are there), she's an idiot. If Duchess' personality is the same in person as it is on this forum, she's definitely been told to get herself checked before, and ignored the advice.
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    17 Mar '17 13:191 edit
    Originally posted by vivify
    If she claims to be educated on everything, yet refuses to acknowledge her autism and get help (despite knowing all the signs are there), she's an idiot. If Duchess' personality is the same in person as it is on this forum, she's definitely been told to get herself checked before, and ignored the advice.
    We should make allowances for it. If she is autistic and I think she is, its not her fault.
  13. Joined
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    17 Mar '17 14:01
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    We should make allowances for it. If she is autistic and I think she is, its not her fault.
    I vehemently disagree.
    (1) I won't blame those who try to have sympathy for Duchess, but unless you are a medical expert and have actually met her, your internet based medical diagnosis is inadequate. (2) Even if you were correct, the cause of her behavior is irrelevant. People on the forum have a right to be free of verbal abuse. If she is unable to control herself she should not be permitted to post.
  14. Joined
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    17 Mar '17 14:07
    Does anyone have a dianosis for shav?

    Bi polar maybe?
  15. Account suspended
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    17 Mar '17 14:553 edits
    Originally posted by quackquack
    I vehemently disagree.
    (1) I won't blame those who try to have sympathy for Duchess, but unless you are a medical expert and have actually met her, your internet based medical diagnosis is inadequate. (2) Even if you were correct, the cause of her behavior is irrelevant. People on the forum have a right to be free of verbal abuse. If she is unable to control herself she should not be permitted to post.
    I have not claimed that I am a medical expert I was simply agreeing with vivify that from what I have read Duchess64 displays certain autistic characteristics. I am not sure what point it is you are attempting to make on this basis? that we could be wrong? well so what?

    Secondly the cause of someones behaviour is not irrelevant and its ludicrous to think that it is. For example the law takes into consideration all kinds of causation when considering the dynamics of particular case that is why we have murder, manslaughter with diminished responsibility etc etc

    Duchess64 has the right to express herself. If she thinks you are a devious troll then she can say so. Generally her posts contain no profanity and although they are repetitive, repetitiveness is not an indication of a lack of self control. You have nothing to complain about and would be better simply finding a way of dealing with her rather unique ways.

    I too have been given the proverbial treatment and with good cause because i have deliberately goaded her. However I understand that these posts are not a reflection of me, but of her. Perhaps you will come to the same realisation?
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