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  1. 06 Apr '13 19:14 / 2 edits
    It seems fashionable for French writers to claim that France has been historically
    less racist than the 'Anglo-Saxons', British and Americans. This claim has been
    based in part on the supposed greater French tolerance of interracial marriages
    or intimate relationships. While it may be true that, during the colonial era,
    there was more acceptance of intimate relationships between white Frenchmen
    and non-white women than between white Englishmen and non-white women,
    that does not seem as true when the genders were reversed. There seems to
    have been much less acceptance (notwithstanding a few notable exceptions)
    of intimate relationships between white Frenchwomen and non-white men.

    In the 2006 French-language film 'Indigenes' (aka 'Days of Glory', there's a
    subplot involving a relationship between a dark-skinned French colonial soldier (of
    Berber or Arab heritage) from North Africa and a white Frenchwoman in 1944-5.
    After his unit has liberated her town from German occupation, she joins the
    the celebration and dances in public with this soldier. Afterward, she invites
    him to her home and into her bed. After spending the night with her, he has
    fallen completely in love with her. After the war, he intends to return to marry
    her and build a new life together in France, not returning home to North Africa.
    While the couple continues to write letters to each other, the French military
    censors always intercept and block those letters, aiming to stop such a 'mixed
    marriage', so both the North African man and the Frenchwoman become worried
    of being forgotten by the other. Their romance never leads to their marriage.

    Is there historical evidence of the French authorities intervening to stop
    marriages between white Frenchwomen and non-white men? Yes, in the intimate
    relationships between white Frenchwomen and Chinese men during the First
    World War. Around 140,000 Chinese men served (sometimes under fire) as
    labourers in France, and more than a few of them were killed (often during
    hazardous work such as disposing of unexploded ordnance). Given that many
    white Frenchmen had been killed or maimed during the war, more than a few
    white Frenchwomen became more willing to consider the marital potential of
    non-white men, including the Chinese. While interracial marriage was legal
    in France and the French authorities did not always bar marriages between
    white Frenchwomen and Chinese men, the French authorities generally seem
    to have done what they could to discourage and to stop such marriages, often
    deporting Chinese men who were engaged or even married to Frenchwomen.

    _Strangers on the Western Front: Chinese Workers in the Great War_
    by Xu Guoqi (2011 Harvard University Press) is the leading study on this subject.
    "The Chinese (men) seemed to be genuinely popular with French women....Some
    French women even went to the Chinese legation to Paris to petition that their
    (Chinese) husbands or fiances who were laborers be allowed to return (after
    being deported by France). ... Frenchmen obviously disliked the fact their women
    were marrying Chinese. ...the (French) Interior Ministry to issue a notice that
    discouraged French women from marrying Chinese.... *Unfortunately, we may
    never know the true picture of Chinese marriages with the French because the
    French government censored any news that mentioned Chinese-French romances.*
    Although the evidence is sketchy, it seems safe to claim that about three thousand
    Chinese laborers chose to stay in France, and many of them got married to French
    women. Sexual relations seemed also to have taken place between Flemish
    women and the Chinese."
    --Xu Guoqi (Strangers on the Western Front, pp. 149-51)

    Why, notwithstanding cultural differences and racial sterotypes, were some white
    Frenchwomen attracted to Chinese men? In large measure, it was on account
    of the perceived shortage of desirable husbands among white Frenchmen.
    The Chinese men had a general reputation as hard-working and non-drinking,
    which pleased some Frenchwomen. Indeed, some Frenchwomen said that they
    were ready to go with their Chinese lovers, if deported by France, to live in China.
    One young Frenchwoman explained that she doubted that she could find a better
    husband than one Chinese man who worked hard, did not drink, and never had
    hit her. She seemed afraid that a French husband (perhaps a veteran with
    serious physical or emotional wounds) would be alcoholic or physically abusive.

    Did China's government encourage or discourage marriages between Chinese
    men and Frenchwomen? While the Chinese authorities advised Chinese men
    to consider marriages with Frenchwomen carefully, China's government did not
    take an official position toward such marriages. China's government did assure
    France's government that it would make sure that Chinese men who intended
    to marry Frenchwomen were unmarried (not having any wives in China).
  2. 06 Apr '13 20:23
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    It seems fashionable for French writers to claim that France has been historically
    less racist than the 'Anglo-Saxons', British and Americans. This claim has been
    based in part on the supposed greater French tolerance of interracial marriages
    or intimate relationships. While it may be true that, during the colonial era,
    there was more acceptance of i ...[text shortened]... ho intended
    to marry Frenchwomen were unmarried (not having any wives in China).
    Silly, it is beyond argument that left to their natural attractions, males and females of different phenotypes can and do mate successfully. Their nations or cultures may not favor the unions, but the couples tend to do just fine.
  3. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    06 Apr '13 21:33
    Those slimy French are always up to something dastardly.
  4. 06 Apr '13 22:00
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Silly, it is beyond argument that left to their natural attractions, males and females of different phenotypes can and do mate successfully. Their nations or cultures may not favor the unions, but the couples tend to do just fine.
    "...the couples tend to do just fine."
    --Normbenign

    Given his distaste for 'highbrow' culture, Normbenign might never have heard of
    'Das Land des Laechelns', an operetta by Franz Lehar, which features the famous
    aria for tenors, 'Dein ist mein ganzes Herz'. The heroine, a Viennese noblewoman,
    marries a Chinese prince and, defying the warnings of her family and friends,
    goes to live with him in China. There she finds herself unable to adapt to Chinese
    culture and unhappy on acount of her husband's practice of taking concubines.
    Eventually, she decides to leave her husband, who still loves her, and return to
    Vienna. While he's saddened by her leaving, in keeping with his cultural tradition,
    the Chinese prince never allows his sadness to show.

    By the way, several years ago there was a concert in Berlin where 'Dein ist
    mein ganzes Herz' was sung by the trio of Placido Domingo, Rolando Villazon,
    and Anna Netrebko (soprano). There was some amusing stage business in which
    the two tenors fought over the attentions of the soprano, who was alternately
    pulled from side to side.
  5. 07 Apr '13 00:54
    Yeah the French are just eating up the joys of diversity:

    http://www.amren.com/features/2013/03/france-laid-waste/
  6. 07 Apr '13 01:44
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    "...the couples tend to do just fine."
    --Normbenign

    Given his distaste for 'highbrow' culture, Normbenign might never have heard of
    'Das Land des Laechelns', an operetta by Franz Lehar, which features the famous
    aria for tenors, 'Dein ist mein ganzes Herz'. The heroine, a Viennese noblewoman,
    marries a Chinese prince and, defying the warnings of h ...[text shortened]... t over the attentions of the soprano, who was alternately
    pulled from side to side.
    I am unfamiliar with the opera, but I don't know what point you are trying to make. That biracial couples sometimes have problems? You can believe it or not, but couples of the same race often have problems.
  7. 07 Apr '13 14:00
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Those slimy French are always up to something dastardly.
    Yeah, what the hell have the French ever done for us anyway? I mean besides providing vital aid and support to the British colonial rebels in the Americas, effectively allowing us to become an independent country.

    Still, for some reason, I love to tease them. The French Defense; for example, I like to play and love to call an oxymoron.
  8. 07 Apr '13 18:26
    Originally posted by normbenign
    I am unfamiliar with the opera, but I don't know what point you are trying to make. That biracial couples sometimes have problems? You can believe it or not, but couples of the same race often have problems.
    "I am unfamiliar with the opera..."
    --Normbenign

    But has Normbenign watched any opera singers play golf on television?
    Normbenign might begin by learning the distinction between an opera and
    an operetta (which I mentioned earlier).
  9. 07 Apr '13 18:30
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper to AThousandYoung
    Yeah, what the hell have the French ever done for us anyway? I mean besides providing vital aid and support to the British colonial rebels in the Americas, effectively allowing us to become an independent country.

    Still, for some reason, I love to tease them. The French Defense; for example, I like to play and love to call an oxymoron.
    "Yeah, what the hell have the French ever done for us anyway?"
    --AThousandYoung

    Have you visited the Statue of Liberty? The United States has inherited some
    international situations from France, such as building a canal in Panama (in
    which the Americans succeeded) and a war against Communism in Indochina
    (in which the Americans were less successful).

    What would you regard as the Maginot Line variation of the French Defence?
  10. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    07 Apr '13 18:35
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    "Yeah, what the hell have the French ever done for us anyway?"
    --AThousandYoung

    Have you visited the Statue of Liberty? The United States has inherited some
    international situations from France, such as building a canal in Panama (in
    which the Americans succeeded) and a war against Communism in Indochina
    (in which the Americans were less successful).

    What would you regard as the Maginot Line variation of the French Defence?
    I didnt write that Paratrooper did and he was being sarcastic.

    The Maginot variation would be defensive on the kingside and wide open on the queenside.
  11. 07 Apr '13 19:51
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    I didnt write that Paratrooper did and he was being sarcastic.

    The Maginot variation would be defensive on the kingside and wide open on the queenside.
    I am sorry; it was my error. I noticed that USArmyParatrooper was writing
    (yes, I noted his sarcasm) to AThousandYoung, and I inadvertently typed
    the wrong writer in attributing the quotation.
  12. 07 Apr '13 20:53
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    I am sorry; it was my error. I noticed that USArmyParatrooper was writing
    (yes, I noted his sarcasm) to AThousandYoung, and I inadvertently typed
    the wrong writer in attributing the quotation.
    Why must you insist on being offensive?

    You are offensive to everyone who posts here
    and now you want to offend a whole Nation.
  13. 07 Apr '13 21:14
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    Why must you insist on being offensive?

    You are offensive to everyone who posts here
    and now you want to offend a whole Nation.
    I apologised to AThousandYoung for unintentionally misattributing a
    USArmyParatrooper quotation to him, and JohnnyLongWoody has jumped
    to the absurd conclusion that I 'want to offend a whole Nation' !

    I don't what to say about Johnnylongwoody's lack of reading comprehension
    or perhaps his lack of sanity.
  14. 07 Apr '13 21:23
    You make posts here of varying nature and when you get
    responses you become abusive and insult the intelligence
    of those who respond to you no matter when they agree
    with you or not.

    You are not capable of having a civilized discourse with others.
    All you want to do is puff up your own perception of how very
    important you think you are and then you demean others.
    You have nothing but contempt for all who come into contact
    with you.

    You have little or no regard for the others who post here and
    frankly I and they are becoming sick of you and your narcissism.
  15. 07 Apr '13 21:36
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    You make posts here of varying nature and when you get
    responses you become abusive and insult the intelligence
    of those who respond to you no matter when they agree
    with you or not.

    You are not capable of having a civilized discourse with others.
    All you want to do is puff up your own perception of how very
    important you think you are and ...[text shortened]... the others who post here and
    frankly I and they are becoming sick of you and your narcissism.
    Johnnylongwoody, I already have notified you that you are in my ignore list.
    I have no interest in exchanging any communications with you.

    Please note that Johnnylongwoody jumped into this thread by making an
    unprovoked personal attack against me when I have written nothing to or
    about Johnnylongwoody. What Johnnylongwoody has written about me
    is more offensive nonsense and completely unrelated to this thread.

    I have been able to communicate--to agree and to disagree--in usually
    cordial terms with such writers as Soothfast, Finnegan, Dewi Jones, etc.
    I don't expect--it would be impossible for anyone who has any strong views
    on any controversial issues--to be able to communicate in such a way with
    every other writer (including the trolls) in this forum.

    Johnnylongwoody warrants no response beyond absolute disdain.