Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
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    31 Mar '16 21:513 edits
    Originally posted by normbenign
    All anyone has to do, is review the current thread, and a few others to see the truthfulness of my statement.
    First of all, I assume that the nearly illiterate Normbenign meant 'everyone' when he wrote 'anyone'.
    Otherwise, his claim would be *meaninglessly trivial*. Obviously, I have *not* denounced
    *everyone* with whom I disagree as 'Islamophobic'. And obviously Islamophobia is
    far from absent from the forums at RHP.

    Of course, there are many Islamophobes (including Normbenign) at RHP, including some
    (e.g. Dasa) who advocate the genocide of Muslims. I have *not* denounced them as
    'Islamophobic' simply because I disagree with them on some unrelated this or that.
    I denounce these people as Islamophobic because they have shown their bigotry or
    hatred toward Islam and Muslims in general (not only 'Muslim terrorists' ).

    So if Normbenign objects to me denouncing *'anyone'* as 'Islamophobic', then would
    Normbenign like to defend Dasa (in the Spirituality forum), whom many writers have
    denounced as Islamophobic because he evidently advocates the genocide of Muslims?
    I suspect that Dasa would welcome support from anyone, including Normbenign.
  2. Joined
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    31 Mar '16 21:51
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    "You make it a policy to accuse anyone of disagreeing with you of Islamophobia."
    --Normbenign.

    Another whopping lie by the tireless pathological liar Normbenign.
    " pathological liar Normbenign "
    We all lie from time to time even you big D but to call some one a pathological liar tells me more about you than you try to imply on others .
  3. Zugzwang
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    31 Mar '16 21:55
    Originally posted by phil3000
    " she will dance , but only if she's allowed to wear hijab "
    Who's bothered if she dances or not ? more important things in the world than a ballerina prancing about wearing a meaningless garb on her face .
    Is it just another Muslim trying to make a statement I wonder ?
    If Stephanie Kurlow ever appears as a ballerina in the UK, then Phil3000 could encourage
    local BNP (British National Party) people to object to her being allowed to enter the UK.
  4. Zugzwang
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    31 Mar '16 21:571 edit
    Originally posted by phil3000
    " pathological liar Normbenign "
    We all lie from time to time even you big D but to call some one a pathological liar tells me more about you than you try to imply on others .
    The pathological liar Normbenign keeps tirelessly spewing the most flagrant whopping lies.
    The troll Phil3000 does his utmost to excuse Normbenign at least in part because Phil3000
    and Normbenign hate some of the same people, such as Muslims in particular.
  5. Cape Town
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    31 Mar '16 21:57
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    In some societies, Muslim women have a choice about whether (or when) to wear hijab.
    And not every Muslim woman chooses to wear hijab all the time outside her home.
    Stephanie Kurlow also is free to choose her religion.
    One does not 'choose a religion'. OK, some people do, but most people do not. Most people are either in a religion for important social reasons or genuinely believe the propositions of the religion.

    She was not 'born into' Islam. Following her parents, she converted to Islam when she was eight years old.
    Not a lot of difference. It remains the case that it can't really be called a choice. She either did it due to social pressure to do so or out of genuine belief.

    She may not necessarily choose to remain a Muslim for the rest of her life.
    Again, not a choice but a question of belief / social pressure.

    If she genuinely believes that wearing a hijab is a requirement of her religion, and she would rather give up ballet than not wear it, then it cannot rightly be called a choice. I am sure a black girl could use skin lightening cream if she really wanted to that badly, but again, skin color shouldn't be regarded as a choice.
  6. Zugzwang
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    31 Mar '16 22:061 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    One does not 'choose a religion'. OK, some people do, but most people do not. Most people are either in a religion for important social reasons or genuinely believe the propositions of the religion.

    [b]She was not 'born into' Islam. Following her parents, she converted to Islam when she was eight years old.

    Not a lot of difference. It remains the ...[text shortened]... eam if she really wanted to that badly, but again, skin color shouldn't be regarded as a choice.[/b]
    "One does not 'choose a religion'. OK, some people do, but most people do not."
    --Twhitehead

    Stephanie Kurlow *did* choose her religion, though perhaps under pressure from her parents.
    For the first eight years of her life, she did not regard herself as a Muslim and had no
    concern about hijab. Then she made a choice to become a Muslim girl wearing hijab.
    When removed from her parents' influence, she could make yet another choice.
    I doubt that Stephanie Kurlow would face any common prejudice in Australia if she
    later decided to leave the house of Islam.

    I have considerable sympathy for Stephanie Kurlow. I would encourage her in ballet.
    And I would respect her decision to give up ballet rather than violate her religious beliefs.
    But I cannot say that her choice to be a Muslim woman who must always wear hijab
    should give her a 'right' to become a professional ballerina under conditions that she requires.
    Being a professional ballerina is a privilege, not a right, and a young woman may have
    to make a sacrifice of what's dear to her in order to become one. Personally, I hope
    that Stephanie Kurlow does succeed in living her dream to the extent that she can.
  7. Joined
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    31 Mar '16 22:08
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    The pathological liar Normbenign keeps tirelessly spewing the most flagrant whopping lies.
    The troll Phil3000 does his utmost to excuse Normbenign at least in part because Phil3000
    and Normbenign hate some of the same people, such as Muslims in particular.
    I wonder why you have started this debate , nice little door opener for you to bring out the boring, tiring racist card .
    I wonder if you big D are a closet racist you seem to like fanning the flames making a debate about a Ballerina that just happens to wear a hijab .
  8. Zugzwang
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    31 Mar '16 22:10
    Originally posted by phil3000
    I wonder why you have started this debate , nice little door opener for you to bring out the boring, tiring racist card .
    I wonder if you big D are a closet racist you seem to like fanning the flames making a debate about a Ballerina that just happens to wear a hijab .
    There are some interesting issues beyond the comprehension of the Islamophobic Phil3000.
    Why doesn't Phil3000 spend his time urging UK citizens named 'Muhammad' to change their names?
  9. Joined
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    31 Mar '16 22:10
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    "One does not 'choose a religion'. OK, some people do, but most people do not."
    --Twhitehead

    Stephanie Kurlow *did* choose her religion, though perhaps under pressure from her parents.
    For the first eight years of her life, she did not regard herself as a Muslim and had no
    concern about hijab. Then she made a choice to become a Muslim girl wearing ...[text shortened]... ally, I hope
    that Stephanie Kurlow does succeed in living her dream to the extent that she can.
    If she gats a job cleaning the local toilets will she wear her hijab ?
  10. Joined
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    31 Mar '16 22:16
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    There are some interesting issues beyond the comprehension of the Islamophobic Phil3000.
    Why doesn't Phil3000 spend his time urging UK citizens named 'Muhammad' to change their names?
    It's up to the Muslim population in Britain to decide what to call their kids ,if Mohammad is the name they come up with good luck to their school teachers .
  11. Zugzwang
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    31 Mar '16 22:261 edit
    Originally posted by phil3000
    It's up to the Muslim population in Britain to decide what to call their kids,
    if Mohammad is the name they come up with good luck to their school teachers .
    Why does Phil3000 apparently believe that teachers need any more 'good luck' to handle
    children named 'Muhammad' (or variant spelling) than children with other names?
  12. Cape Town
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    01 Apr '16 11:51
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Stephanie Kurlow *did* choose her religion, though perhaps under pressure from her parents.
    I disagree. We do not know how she came to be Muslim. It is possible that she actually came to believe in Islam, in which case it was not a matter of choice.
    As children grow up, they come to believe that falling off cliffs could kill you. They do not choose to believe this. They cannot really be said to decide to not jump off cliffs.

    But I cannot say that her choice to be a Muslim woman who must always wear hijab
    should give her a 'right' to become a professional ballerina under conditions that she requires.

    I agree. There is no such thing as the 'right' to become a professional ballerina. There is however a right to fair treatment. I do however think that a ballet company should not be forced to hire her. At the same time, they should not refuse to hire her on the basis of her religion, but only on the basis that she will not be suitable for the part ie she will not be able to dress as required by the job.
    Of course the same sorts of issue would arise in many work places that have strict dress codes that either exclude headwear or include revealing outfits. Topless bars for instance probably would refuse to hire someone whose religion requires them to keep their boobs covered.
  13. Zugzwang
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    01 Apr '16 17:341 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I disagree. We do not know how she came to be Muslim. It is possible that she actually came to believe in Islam, in which case it was not a matter of choice.
    As children grow up, they come to believe that falling off cliffs could kill you. They do not choose to believe this. They cannot really be said to decide to not jump off cliffs.

    [b]But I cannot ...[text shortened]... probably would refuse to hire someone whose religion requires them to keep their boobs covered.
    "It is possible that she actually came to believe in Islam, in which case it was not a matter of choice."
    --TWhitehead

    I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying that it's 'not a matter of choice'
    whether or not someone believes a religion is true?

    I know some people who were brought up as Muslims and sincerely believed that Islam is true.
    Then they stopped believing that Islam is true and made a choice to change their religion.
    I also know some Muslim women who don't insist on wearing hijab all the time in public.
  14. The Catbird's Seat
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    01 Apr '16 20:17
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Why does Phil3000 apparently believe that teachers need any more 'good luck' to handle
    children named 'Muhammad' (or variant spelling) than children with other names?
    It is no more problematic than it was in Boston public schools when I attended. There John was probably the most common name. Teachers would ask the Johns if they had a preferred nickname, middle name, or moniker they liked so as to avoid confusion during oral class segments.
  15. The Catbird's Seat
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    01 Apr '16 20:18
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    "It is possible that she actually came to believe in Islam, in which case it was not a matter of choice."
    --TWhitehead

    I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying that it's 'not a matter of choice'
    whether or not someone believes a religion is true?

    I know some people who were brought up as Muslims and sincerely believed that Islam is true. ...[text shortened]... ligion.
    I also know some Muslim women who don't insist on wearing hijab all the time in public.
    Much the same as many Catholic women who don't wear a rosary.
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