Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    23 Mar '18 02:003 edits
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/mar/22/paraguayan-rape-victim-14-dies-giving-birth

    "Paraguayan rape victim, 14, dies giving birth."

    "A 14-year-old rape victim has died during childbirth in Paraguay, where
    abortion is forbidden unless giving birth threatens the life of the mother."

    "Doctors attempted to deliver the baby vaginally until the young mother had a
    respiratory complication. They were attempting an emergency caesarean section
    when the girl suffered an embolism, three cardiac arrests and then died.
    “It was very sudden. They attempted advanced resuscitation in intensive care,
    but we could not save her. Her body was not ready for a pregnancy,”
    Hernán Martínez, the director of the National Hospital of Itauguá, told local media."

    "According figures from the health ministry, 889 girls [in Paraguay]
    between the ages of 10 and 14 gave birth in 2015."
    (How many of these girls were impregnated by rape?)

    "Her [14 year old rape victim's] body was not ready for a pregnancy."

    Why must this story be considered a 'success' for the 'pro-life' movement?
    The 14 year old rape victim was barred from having an abortion.
    That's the only thing that really matters to the 'pro-life' movement.
    The fact that the (involuntary) young mother died means nothing to 'pro-life' activists.
  2. Standard memberRemoved
    Account suspended
    Joined
    31 Jan '18
    Moves
    3456
    23 Mar '18 02:31
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/mar/22/paraguayan-rape-victim-14-dies-giving-birth

    "Paraguayan rape victim, 14, dies giving birth."

    "A 14-year-old rape victim has died during childbirth in Paraguay, where
    abortion is forbidden unless giving birth threatens the life of the mother."

    "Doctors attempted to deliver the baby vagin ...[text shortened]... ement.
    The fact that the (involuntary) young mother died means nothing to 'pro-life' activists.
    FWIW, many (most?) pro-life activists in the United States recognize three exceptions - rape, incest, life of the mother. Clearly the girl in the article you cited met two of the three, unless the age of consent in Paraguay is out of whack with the minimum age of consent in the United States, which I am pretty sure is 16.
  3. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    23 Mar '18 04:001 edit
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    FWIW, many (most?) pro-life activists in the United States recognize three exceptions - rape, incest, life of the mother. Clearly the girl in the article you cited met two of the three, unless the age of consent in Paraguay is out of whack with the minimum age of consent in the United States, which I am pretty sure is 16.
    In the USA, the age of consent varies according to the state, ranging from 16 to 18.

    In Paraguay, the age of consent is 14. Evidently, a man has been
    charged with the forcible, not statutory, rape of the late 14 year old girl.
  4. Standard memberRemoved
    Account suspended
    Joined
    31 Jan '18
    Moves
    3456
    23 Mar '18 04:36
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    In the USA, the age of consent varies according to the state, ranging from 16 to 18.

    In Paraguay, the age of consent is 14. Evidently, a man has been
    charged with the forcible, not statutory, rape of the late 14 year old girl.
    14? That’s crazy. But as you pointed out, it was still rape, even if it wasn’t statutory. I think most pro-life activists agree with the three exceptions, though I suppose all but the exception for the life of the mother is intellectually inconsistent.
  5. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    23 Mar '18 05:57
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    14? That’s crazy. But as you pointed out, it was still rape, even if it wasn’t statutory. I think most pro-life activists agree with the three exceptions, though I suppose all but the exception for the life of the mother is intellectually inconsistent.
    "14? That’s crazy."
    --Romans1009

    Until 1875 in 'conservative' Victorian Britain, the age of consent was 12 years.
    Then it was raised to 13 years. In 1885, it was raised again to 16 years.
  6. Standard memberRemoved
    Account suspended
    Joined
    31 Jan '18
    Moves
    3456
    23 Mar '18 06:35
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    "14? That’s crazy."
    --Romans1009

    Until 1875 in 'conservative' Victorian Britain, the age of consent was 12 years.
    Then it was raised to 13 years. In 1885, it was raised again to 16 years.
    I remember reading that in Biblical times, girls and boys used to marry as young as 12 and 13. I have to think the age of consent has a lot to do with emotional development though obviously physical development plays a role as evidenced by the 14-year-old girl in Paraguay.
  7. Joined
    04 Feb '05
    Moves
    29132
    23 Mar '18 08:58
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/mar/22/paraguayan-rape-victim-14-dies-giving-birth

    "Paraguayan rape victim, 14, dies giving birth."

    "A 14-year-old rape victim has died during childbirth in Paraguay, where
    abortion is forbidden unless giving birth threatens the life of the mother."

    "Doctors attempted to deliver the baby vagin ...[text shortened]... ement.
    The fact that the (involuntary) young mother died means nothing to 'pro-life' activists.
    "Why must this story be considered a 'success' for the 'pro-life' movement?"
    who considers it that?
    the article doesn't. you did, however, when you named your thread, which i thought was sarcasm until you started asking in earnest.
  8. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    23 Mar '18 11:35
    Well, well, teens die from abortions as well.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/06/13/inquest-told-teen-died-after-taking-abortion-pills.html

    An English teenager died from complications two weeks after taking two abortion pills, her mother told an inquest into her death this week.

    Manon Jones, 18, described by her mother as a devout Christian teen, opted to terminate her pregnancy at six weeks because she feared the pregnancy would cause conflict within her "Muslim" boyfriend's family, the Daily Mail reported Friday.

    The teen took the first dose of medication to terminate the pregnancy on June 10, 2005, and the second two days later. On June 15, Jones felt light-headed and experienced heavy bleeding so her boyfriend took her to Southmead Hospital in Bristol, England for a scan. She was told the scan was "normal," the report said.

    Days later, Jones cut short a vacation with friends because she still felt unwell. She returned home and checked herself into Southmead Hospital.

    She died July 27 after being taken off life support.

    The cause of her death was hypovolemia, an abnormal decrease in blood volume, and shock caused by "retained products of conception," including the embryo, Dr. Hugh White told the inquest.

    Dr. Lucy Jackson, who treated Jones, told the inquest that doctors initially failed to diagnose the condition because "the hospital was extremely busy" the night the teen checked in. Fighting back tears, Jackson said if the hospital had not been so busy, things might have turned out differently.

    RU-486 has been approved for use in the U.S. since 2000. It has been linked to deaths of at least seven women and is believed to be used in about 13 percent of abortions. The abortion pill has been used more than 500,000 times since it was approved for use in the U.S. for early pregnancy, defined as seven weeks' duration or less.

    Dr. Manny Alvarez, managing health editor for FOXNews.com, said a condition such as the one Jones had needs to be acted on “very quickly” in order for doctors to save a woman’s life.

    “There’s always a potential when you take this pill that you may not have complete loss of the pregnancy,” he said. “By retaining products of conception, a woman can have significant bleeding, shock and death.”


    Hey Duchy, she was even a "white" "Christian".

    Yay team! 😵
  9. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    23 Mar '18 11:41
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/mar/22/paraguayan-rape-victim-14-dies-giving-birth

    "Paraguayan rape victim, 14, dies giving birth."

    "A 14-year-old rape victim has died during childbirth in Paraguay, where
    abortion is forbidden unless giving birth threatens the life of the mother."

    "Doctors attempted to deliver the baby vagin ...[text shortened]... ement.
    The fact that the (involuntary) young mother died means nothing to 'pro-life' activists.
    Hey Duchy, any idea who is America's #1 mass murderer?

    I'll give you a hint, he did not use a gun, nor bomb, not even a car to drive over people.

    No, he used an abortion knife.

    http://www.catholicworldreport.com/2017/07/27/the-horrifying-necessary-story-of-americas-most-prolific-cold-blooded-serial-killer/

    You say that you have never heard of him?

    The hell you say! 😲

    And to think, legalize abortion was suppose to end back alley abortions. It didn't.

    Now they just pick on poor women, usually meaning minority women, to give them cheap and subpar care that ends up harming them and their sometimes viable infants.

    I just wonder how many monsters like this are still out there. My guess is a lot.
  10. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    23 Mar '18 11:431 edit
    Any idea why Gosnell killed so many? It's because the health department came round during the 1970's, and found multiple health violations. But instead of shutting him down or making him comply, they simply stopped coming round cuz abortion is such a political football.

    Not only did the press do their best to hush the story, the Dims in Pervwood refused to make a movie about it cuz the topic was not PC.

    Imagine, America's #1 mass murderer and Hollywood refuses to make a movie about it.

    Shocking, isn't it? 😲

    The blood of those minority women and children are on the hands of people like you Duchy.

    And where was the NAACP? No where to be found.

    Imagine, the #1 mass murderer of black women and not a peep from the NAACP.
  11. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
    Joined
    31 Jan '04
    Moves
    56284
    23 Mar '18 15:31
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    In the USA, the age of consent varies according to the state, ranging from 16 to 18.

    In Paraguay, the age of consent is 14. Evidently, a man has been
    charged with the forcible, not statutory, rape of the late 14 year old girl.
    With parental permission, some US states have lower age limits for getting married.
  12. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    23 Mar '18 16:21
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    With parental permission, some US states have lower age limits for getting married.
    You seem to know a lot about this Shav.
  13. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    23 Mar '18 20:23
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Well, well, teens die from abortions as well.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/06/13/inquest-told-teen-died-after-taking-abortion-pills.html

    An English teenager died from complications two weeks after taking two abortion pills, her mother told an inquest into her death this week.

    Manon Jones, 18, described by her mother as a devout Christian teen, ...[text shortened]... bleeding, shock and death.”


    Hey Duchy, she was even a "white" "Christian".

    Yay team! 😵
    "Well, well, teens die from abortions as well."
    --Whodey

    Many more girls would die from abortions if they were made illegal (as Whodey demands).
    If the hypocritical 'pro-life' zealot Whodey had any *sincere* concern for female lives, then
    he should welcome abortion being.made legal and available to everyone (including the poor)
    who wanted to terminate one's own unwanted pregnancy.
  14. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    23 Mar '18 20:311 edit
    Originally posted by @zahlanzi
    "Why must this story be considered a 'success' for the 'pro-life' movement?"
    who considers it that?
    the article doesn't. you did, however, when you named your thread, which i thought was sarcasm until you started asking in earnest.
    Zahlanzi's another nearly illiterate 'reader' who cannot recognize sarcasm unless (or
    perhaps not even when) it's explicitly labeled loudly as 'SARCASM INTENDED'.

    I know of no evidence that the 'pro-life' movement believes that anything wrong happened in this case.
    The 'pro-life' movement has about every reason to regard this as a 'success'.
    The Paraguayan authorities carefully following their law without heeding any objections.

    1) The 14 year old rape victim was stopped from having an abortion. That's what really matters.
    2) The fetus (whose existence is sacred) was not terminated and was born, surviving as of now.
    3) The mother's death should be regarded as a coincidental consequence of no importance.

    If there could be a 'do-over', would not the 'pro-life' movement believe that nothing different should be attempted?
    1) No abortion 2) Fetus survives to be born (After that, it's on its own in a laissez-faire world).
    3) Girl dies (Who cares? She might have died in a traffic accident leaving the hospital.)
  15. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    23 Mar '18 20:31
    We all come from a world in which only males could have property, and females were counted as property. This attitude has, in some sectors, gone underground, but is still unconsciously influential.
Back to Top