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  1. 12 Jan '12 21:45
    http://www.amfar.org/abouthiv/srticle.aspx?id=3592

    In the article it states that 67% of all AIDS cases globally originate from Saharan Africa. This comes out to be about 23 million people.

    Conversely, if you take the entire bulk of North Africa PLUS the Middle East together, there are only about 1.5 million cases.

    So what is it about Saharan Africa that lends itself to the high number of AIDS cases? Is it merely poverty? If so, why not other poverty stricken areas?

    What is your explanation?
  2. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    12 Jan '12 22:05
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://www.amfar.org/abouthiv/srticle.aspx?id=3592

    In the article it states that 67% of all AIDS cases globally originate from Saharan Africa. This comes out to be about 23 million people.

    Conversely, if you take the entire bulk of North Africa PLUS the Middle East together, there are only about 1.5 million cases.

    So what is it about Saharan Africa ...[text shortened]... Is it merely poverty? If so, why not other poverty stricken areas?

    What is your explanation?
    Interesting question.

    Did you mean it to be rhetorical?
  3. Standard member DrKF
    incipit parodia
    12 Jan '12 22:19 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://www.amfar.org/abouthiv/srticle.aspx?id=3592

    In the article it states that 67% of all AIDS cases globally originate from Saharan Africa. This comes out to be about 23 million people.

    Conversely, if you take the entire bulk of North Africa PLUS the Middle East together, there are only about 1.5 million cases.

    So what is it about Saharan Africa ...[text shortened]... Is it merely poverty? If so, why not other poverty stricken areas?

    What is your explanation?
    Sadly the link is dead, whodey... Not that I'm contradicting you: what you say is an empirical fact. Can you track it back down?

    (One interesting thing to note - since there is a grinding inevitability that you will bring this up at some point, somehow - is that homosexuality probably accounts for a tiny percentage of HIV infections in this area.)

    Part of the explanation is cumulative (although we do need to explain how we got to this stage). It seems likely that the sheer prevalence of HIV-1 (largely genotype C, from memory) in sub-Saharan Africa means that a 'tipping point' has been passed - epidemiologically speaking, the sheer number of people infected, and the unusually large number of women infected and certain cultural practices in that area, means that re-transmission rates are extraordinarily high. Even if promiscuity rates were low (which in many areas they are, comparatively speaking), the effect of high-volume infection is not arithmetic, but more exponential.

    You speak about 'poverty' as a cause, but poverty itself has no real bearing on the matter - it is the effects of poverty that are a major cause.

    Unsafe blood transfusions (which accounted for a shocking number of HIV infections before immuno-assay testing became available in the west) accounts for part of this process. Poverty leads to dreadful medical care - and where that is available, it is incredibly sub-optimal by western standards. Where 'life-saving' transfusion is available, the historical western pattern of transfusion-related infection is a contemporary reality.

    Similarly, the lack of (inexpensive by western standards) clean needles for many basic medical procedures and similarly (again, by our standards) inexpensive sterilisation equipment means that yet more basic medical procedures carry high risks of transmission.

    See, again, the cumulative effect above for why this is important.

    (Again from memory, transmission by blood is higher than any form of sexual transmission. If I am mistaken here, the risk from blood is still high, although their lack of access to pooled products somewhat reduces that risk and if I am mistaken about relative risk this is because of pooled product risk.)

    But obviously, sexual transmission is still the most common disease vector - but this, too, can be linked to poverty.

    Poverty breeds prostitution, and prostitution - especially absent safe sex - breeds all STDs, including AIDS, for example.

    The effects of poor education are cumulative, too. Poor general education leads to poor sexual education and an inability to break with (pseudo-) traditional ways of life and social practices and also makes sub-Saharan Africa ripe for AIDS denialism.

    And then, of course, there is the root cause of the AIDS pandemic, which most certainly started in Africa - it is a legacy of colonialism and the effects that practice had on African life. That sub-Saharan Africa feels these after-effects most acutely is also vitally important.

    There's probably more to be said, but that is the start of my explanation...

    (apologies for all the edits: closing off italics in multiple places...)
  4. Standard member DrKF
    incipit parodia
    12 Jan '12 22:25
    You switched an 's' for an 'a' in the link:

    http://www.amfar.org/abouthiv/article.aspx?id=3592
  5. 12 Jan '12 22:28
    Originally posted by DrKF
    You switched an 's' for an 'a' in the link:

    http://www.amfar.org/abouthiv/article.aspx?id=3592
    Yes, thanks for that. Anyone else?
  6. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    12 Jan '12 22:29 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://www.amfar.org/abouthiv/srticle.aspx?id=3592

    In the article it states that 67% of all AIDS cases globally originate from Saharan Africa. This comes out to be about 23 million people.

    Conversely, if you take the entire bulk of North Africa PLUS the Middle East together, there are only about 1.5 million cases.

    So what is it about Saharan Africa ...[text shortened]... Is it merely poverty? If so, why not other poverty stricken areas?

    What is your explanation?
    Part of the reason is that AIDS comes from sub-Saharan Africa.

    Ignorant, superstitious population has something to do with it. The raping that takes place probably does too. Also some northern Europeans are genetically resistant to HIV.
  7. 12 Jan '12 22:29
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    Interesting question.

    Did you mean it to be rhetorical?
    It's whatever you want it to be.
  8. 12 Jan '12 22:30
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Part of the reason is that AIDS comes from sub-Saharan Africa.
    I've heard this, but is this true? If so, prove it.
  9. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    12 Jan '12 22:32
    Originally posted by whodey
    I've heard this, but is this true? If so, prove it.
    Take a look at this newspaper article:

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-05-25-hiv-cameroon_x.htm
  10. 12 Jan '12 22:39
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://www.amfar.org/abouthiv/srticle.aspx?id=3592

    In the article it states that 67% of all AIDS cases globally originate from Saharan Africa. This comes out to be about 23 million people.

    Conversely, if you take the entire bulk of North Africa PLUS the Middle East together, there are only about 1.5 million cases.

    So what is it about Saharan Africa ...[text shortened]... Is it merely poverty? If so, why not other poverty stricken areas?

    What is your explanation?
    Catholicism and a cultural tradition which pushes for having as many children as possible. As one woman said in an interview years ago, "we aren't African women if we aren't having children."

    Also, the disease is believed to have started in what was then called Zaire. Another possible point of origin is Haiti. Both countries allowed pharmaceutical companies to experiment on poor people for cheap compensation, or so goes the conspiracy theory.
  11. Standard member DrKF
    incipit parodia
    12 Jan '12 22:39 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    I've heard this, but is this true? If so, prove it.
    I'd have to see if I can find open-access journal articles on the zoonosis that led to simian immuno-deficiency virus (SIV) jumping the species barrier (from chimps and gorillas for HIV-1 and a type of mangabeys for HIV-2) to make HIV, but that is the scientific consensus with very, very few informed dissenters. The consensus is further that 'bushmeat' practices regularly transmit SIV to humans, and that colonial practices (amongst other causes)* lead to proper zoonosis and hence the epidemic and latterly pandemic.

    'Prove' is a strong word, but there's hardly a reputable HIV researcher who demurs from this consensus.

    (Oooh - is this the point? Great!)

    * I perhaps over-stress colonialism as a consensus cause just a little here.
  12. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    12 Jan '12 22:41
    Originally posted by DrKF
    I'd have to see if I can find open-access journal articles on the zoonosis that lead to simian immuno-deficiency virus (SIV) jumping the species barrier (from chimps and gorillas for HIV-1 and a type of mangabeys for HIV-2) to make HIV, but that is the scientific consensus with very, very few informed dissenters. The consensus is further that 'bushmeat' practic ...[text shortened]... ] the point? Great!)

    * I perhaps over-stress colonialism as a cause just a little here.
    Pubmed rocks

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22229120
  13. Standard member DrKF
    incipit parodia
    12 Jan '12 22:42
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    Also, the disease is believed to have started in what was then called Zaire. Another possible point of origin is Haiti.
    DRC for HIV-1 (gorrila/chimp zoonosis) and a number of west African countries for HIV-2 (mangabey zoonosis).

    Haiti is only really implicated in the spread to the west.
  14. 13 Jan '12 00:26
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    Catholicism and a cultural tradition which pushes for having as many children as possible. As one woman said in an interview years ago, "we aren't African women if we aren't having children."

    Also, the disease is believed to have started in what was then called Zaire. Another possible point of origin is Haiti. Both countries allowed pharmaceutical companies to experiment on poor people for cheap compensation, or so goes the conspiracy theory.
    What about North African women? Why are their numbers much lower than Saharan Africans?
  15. 13 Jan '12 00:29
    Originally posted by DrKF
    The effects of poor education are cumulative, too. Poor general education leads to poor sexual education and an inability to break with (pseudo-) traditional ways of life and social practices and also makes sub-Saharan Africa ripe for AIDS denialism.

    And then, of course, there is the root cause of the AIDS pandemic, which most certainly started in ...[text shortened]... f my explanation...

    (apologies for all the edits: closing off italics in multiple places...)[/b]
    Would you say that education is much better in the North African region? In short, why the difference between North and South?