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  1. 17 Feb '17 22:04
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/17/two-state-solution-one-trump-rightwing-zionists

    "Trump's 'one-state' remarks embolden rightwing Zionists – Jewish and Christian."

    "The differing responses of ZOA and J Street are representative of a
    rift among the 6 million American Jews. “There are increasingly two
    American Jewries, Orthodox and Reform, and that split is increasing
    rather than diminishing,” said Herb Weisberg, a political scientist at
    Ohio State University who is writing a book on the politics of American Jews.

    The more progressive-leaning Reform movement – which tends to side
    with the two-state solution – accounts for 35% of the overall community,
    according to Pew Research, together with another third that identify
    with no denomination at all.

    By contrast, the more conservative-leaning Orthodox Jews amount to
    only 10%. But though they are the relative underdogs numerically, they
    carry an increasingly influential punch given their close ties to the
    Republican party – and to Trump, whose son-in-law and Middle East
    adviser, Jared Kushner, is an Orthodox Jew.

    Trump’s choice of US ambassador to Israel, David Friedman, has called
    for the Israeli annexation of the West Bank.

    Of particular importance to the changing debate on Israel within the US
    is Aipac, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, which enjoys a
    lion-sized influence on Capitol Hill. The lobby group presents itself as
    bipartisan, though in practice it has moved steadily towards the hardline position."

    "Arguably the most important group steering the US-Israeli relationship
    is not Jewish at all, but Christian evangelical. Again, the numbers are
    significant: the Jewish community is tiny compared with up to 80 million evangelicals.

    Within that group, twice as many white evangelical Protestants as Jews
    subscribe to the biblical belief that God gave the land of Israel to the
    Jewish people, Pew has found.

    Their influence is amplified also by representation within Trump’s inner
    circle, in this case Vice-President Mike Pence, who describes himself
    as a “born-again, evangelical Catholic”. "

    "Evangelical Zionists are wielding increasing influence in Congress,
    emboldened by the Trump administration and Pence in particular.
    Christians United for Israel (CUFI), the largest of all pro-Israel groups in
    the US, has begun to exert pressure on Congress members by ranking
    them according to their voting record in an echo of how the National
    Rifle Association browbeats representatives into being pro-gun."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herrenvolk_democracy
  2. 17 Feb '17 22:22
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/16/the-guardian-view-on-trump-and-israel-casual-careless-and-dangerous

    "The Guardian view on Trump and Israel: casual, careless and dangerous."

    "The overall tendency of the administration is disturbing. Symptomatic is his choice of
    ambassador. David Friedman has financially supported illegal settlements, backed
    annexation of territory in the West Bank and made wildly offensive remarks about liberal
    Jews, for which he belatedly expressed regret at a heated confirmation hearing today."
  3. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    17 Feb '17 23:58
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/16/the-guardian-view-on-trump-and-israel-casual-careless-and-dangerous

    "The Guardian view on Trump and Israel: casual, careless and dangerous."

    "The overall tendency of the administration is disturbing. Symptomatic is his choice of
    ambassador. David Friedman has financially supported illegal settle ...[text shortened]... liberal
    Jews, for which he belatedly expressed regret at a heated confirmation hearing today."
    These are grim times. The US is a force for evil on a terrible scale.
  4. 18 Feb '17 15:37
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/17/two-state-solution-one-trump-rightwing-zionists

    "Trump's 'one-state' remarks embolden rightwing Zionists – Jewish and Christian."

    "The differing responses of ZOA and J Street are representative of a
    rift among the 6 million American Jews. “There are increasingly two
    American Jewries, Orthodox and Re ...[text shortened]... beats representatives into being pro-gun."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herrenvolk_democracy
    I remember when Harry Reid came out of a meeting with Trump and said "good news, Israel will still get money from us".
    At about 2 billion per year mostly in the form of weapons it is the very wasteful thing Trump complained about on the campaign trail. If we are giving this money away willingly we are ripping ourselves off. Most people should be aware that supporting Israel like this is causing terrorism and instability in the middle east. It is a lose/lose policy.
  5. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    21 Feb '17 10:46 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    I remember when Harry Reid came out of a meeting with Trump and said "good news, Israel will still get money from us".
    At about 2 billion per year mostly in the form of weapons it is the very wasteful thing Trump complained about on the campaign trail. If we are giving this money away willingly we are ripping ourselves off. Most people should be aware ...[text shortened]... ael like this is causing terrorism and instability in the middle east. It is a lose/lose policy.
    You can at least double that figure, given Obama's still recent announcement of a $38billion gift over ten years, but actually the extent of US subsidy for Israel is far more than this, as indicated for example in this article [ which is not a recent one]:

    http://www.wrmea.org/congress-u.s.-aid-to-israel/u.s.-financial-aid-to-israel-figures-facts-and-impact.html

    Most Americans are not aware how much of their tax revenue our government sends to Israel. For the fiscal year ending in September 30, 1997, the U.S. has given Israel $6.72 billion: $6.194 billion falls under Israel's foreign aid allotment and $526 million comes from agencies such as the Department of Commerce, the U.S. Information Agency and the Pentagon. The $6.72 billion figure does not include loan guarantees and annual compound interest totalling $3.122 billion the U.S. pays on money borrowed to give to Israel. It does not include the cost to U.S. taxpayers of IRS tax exemptions that donors can claim when they donate money to Israeli charities. (Donors claim approximately $1 billion in Federal tax deductions annually. This ultimately costs other U.S. tax payers $280 million to $390 million.)

    When grant, loans, interest and tax deductions are added together for the fiscal year ending in September 30, 1997, our special relationship with Israel cost U.S. taxpayers over $10 billion.

    Since 1949 the U.S. has given Israel a total of $83.205 billion. The interest costs borne by U.S. tax payers on behalf of Israel are $49.937 billion, thus making the total amount of aid given to Israel since 1949 $133.132 billion. This may mean that U.S. government has given more federal aid to the average Israeli citizen in a given year than it has given to the average American citizen.

    I am angry when I see Israeli settlers from Hebron destroy improvements made to Shuhada Street with my tax money. Also, it angers me that my government is giving over $10 billion to a country that is more prosperous than most of the other countries in the world and uses much of its money for strengthening its military and the oppression of the Palestinian people.


    To put this in perspective, "Israelis enjoy a higher per capita income than oil-rich Saudi Arabia."

    Anyone unable to see that Israel has become an American colony is not looking.
  6. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    21 Feb '17 11:09
    U.S. government has given more federal aid to the average Israeli citizen in a given year than it has given to the average American citizen.


    Did you see that?
  7. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    21 Feb '17 12:39
    Originally posted by finnegan
    U.S. government has given more federal aid to the average Israeli citizen in a given year than it has given to the average American citizen.


    Did you see that?
    Who says yanks aren't generous?
  8. Subscriber mchill
    cryptogram
    21 Feb '17 15:18
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/17/two-state-solution-one-trump-rightwing-zionists

    "Trump's 'one-state' remarks embolden rightwing Zionists – Jewish and Christian."

    "The differing responses of ZOA and J Street are representative of a
    rift among the 6 million American Jews. “There are increasingly two
    American Jewries, Orthodox and Re ...[text shortened]... beats representatives into being pro-gun."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herrenvolk_democracy
    Thank You for telling us what we already know.
  9. 21 Feb '17 16:06
    Originally posted by finnegan
    You can at least double that figure, given Obama's still recent announcement of a $38billion gift over ten years, but actually the extent of US subsidy for Israel is far more than this, as indicated for example in this article [ which is not a recent one]:

    http://www.wrmea.org/congress-u.s.-aid-to-israel/u.s.-financial-aid-to-israel-figures-facts-and-imp ...[text shortened]... i Arabia."[/i]

    Anyone unable to see that Israel has become an American colony is not looking.
    You did your homework. Thanks for the info.

    I agree that Israel is a defacto American Colony. The insane generosity to a nation causing so much instability in the Middle East pretty much proves it.
  10. 21 Feb '17 22:36
    Originally posted by finnegan
    U.S. government has given more federal aid to the average Israeli citizen in a given year than it has given to the average American citizen.


    Did you see that?
    Sometimes the USA has given Israel the most advanced American weapons even
    before the US military gets them for regular usage.
  11. 21 Feb '17 23:19
    Originally posted by finnegan
    These are grim times. The US is a force for evil on a terrible scale.
    Just yesterday they were a force for good with Obama.

    Wow, that changed quick.
  12. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    21 Feb '17 23:49 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Just yesterday they were a force for good with Obama.

    Wow, that changed quick.
    Check my record, I have consistently opposed and argued against Obama's foreign policy record. I also posted material indicating that Clinton was planning much worse to come.

    Love is not love
    Which alters when it alteration finds,
  13. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    22 Feb '17 00:00
    "For 15 years, the Middle East "peace process" initiated by the Oslo accords has been on life support. Last week, United States president Donald Trump pulled the plug, whether he understood it or not.

    Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu could barely stifle a smile as Mr Trump demoted the two-state solution from holy grail. Instead, he said of resolving the conflict: "I am looking at two states or one state … I can live with either one."

    Given the huge asymmetry of power, Israel now has a free hand to entrench its existing apartheid version of the one-state solution – Greater Israel – on the Palestinians. This is the destination to which Mr Netanyahu has been steering the Israel-Palestine conflict his entire career.

    This week it emerged that at a secret summit in Aqaba last year – attended by Egypt and Jordan, and overseen by US secretary of state John Kerry – Mr Netanyahu was offered a regional peace deal that included almost everything he had demanded of the Palestinians. And still he said no.

    Much earlier, in 2001, Mr Netanyahu was secretly filmed boasting to settlers of how he had foiled the Oslo process a short time earlier by failing to carry out promised withdrawals from Palestinian territory. He shrugged off the US role as something that could be "easily moved to the right direction".

    Now he has the White House where he wants it.

    In expressing ambivalence about the final number of states, Mr Trump may have assumed he was leaving options open for his son-in-law and presumed peace envoy, Jared Kushner.

    But words can take on a life of their own, especially when uttered by the president of the world’s only superpower.

    Some believe Mr Trump, faced with the region’s realities, will soon revert to Washington’s playbook on two states, with the US again adopting the bogus role of "honest broker". Others suspect his interest will wilt, allowing Israel to intensify settlement building and its abuse of Palestinians.

    The long-term effect, however, is likely to be more decisive. The one-state option mooted by Mr Trump will resonate with both Israelis and Palestinians because it reminds each side of their historic ambitions.

    The international community has repeatedly introduced the chimera of the two-state solution, but for most of their histories the two sides favoured a single state – if for different reasons.

    From the outset, the mainstream Zionist movement wanted an exclusive Jewish state, and a larger one than it was ever offered.

    In late 1947, the Zionist leadership backed the United Nations partition plan for tactical reasons, knowing the Palestinians would reject the transfer of most of their homeland to recent European immigrants.

    A few months later they seized more territory – in war – than the UN envisioned, but were still not satisfied. Religious and secular alike hungered for the rest of Palestine. Shimon Peres was among the leaders who began the settlement drive immediately following the 1967 occupation.

    Those territorial ambitions were muffled by Oslo, but will be unleashed again in full force by Mr Trump’s stated indifference.

    The Palestinians’ history points in a parallel direction. As Zionism made its first inroads into Palestine, they rejected any compromise with what were seen as European colonisers.

    In the 1950s, after Israel’s creation, the resistance under Yasser Arafat espoused a single secular democratic state in all of historic Palestine. Only with the collapse of the Soviet Union and the Palestinians’ growing isolation in the early 1990s, did Arafat cave in and sign up for partition.

    But for Palestinians, Oslo has entailed not just enduring Israel’s constant bad faith, but also created a deeply compromised vehicle for self-government. The Palestinian Authority has split the Palestinian people territorially – between Fatah in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza – and required a Faustian pact to uphold Israel’s security, including the settlers’, at all costs.

    The truth, obscured by Oslo, is that the one-state solution has underpinned the aspirations of Israelis and Palestinians for more than a century. It did not come about because each expected different things from it.

    For Israelis, it was to be a fortress to exclude the native Palestinian population.

    For Palestinians, it was the locus of national liberation from centuries of colonial rule. Only later did many Palestinians, especially groups such as Hamas, come to mirror the Zionist idea of an exclusive – if in their case, Islamic – state.

    Mr Trump’s self-declared detachment will now revive these historic forces. Settler leader Naftali Bennett will compete with Mr Netanyahu to take credit for speeding up the annexation of ever-greater blocs of West Bank territory while rejecting any compromise on Jerusalem. Meanwhile, Palestinians, particularly the youth, will understand that their struggle is not for illusory borders but for liberation from the Jewish supremacism inherent in mainstream Zionism. The struggle Mr Trump’s equivocation provokes, however, must first play out in the internal politics of Israelis and Palestinians.

    It is a supremely clarifying moment. Each side must now define what it really wants to fight for: a fortress for their tribe alone, or a shared homeland ensuring rights and dignity for all."


    http://www.thenational.ae/opinion/comment/trumps-clarifying-moment-for-israel-and-palestinians#full
  14. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    22 Feb '17 00:08
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    You did your homework. Thanks for the info.

    I agree that Israel is a defacto American Colony. The insane generosity to a nation causing so much instability in the Middle East pretty much proves it.
    Normally colonies are the ones who pay the imperial masters.
  15. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    22 Feb '17 00:18
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Normally colonies are the ones who pay the imperial masters.
    ' Israeli satirist B. Michael refers to U.S. aid this way: "'My master gives me food to eat and I bite those whom he tells me to bite. It's called strategic cooperation."

    The article does give information about what the US gets in return - which is pretty dismal - though it also clarifies that the major lobbyist for subsidy to Israel is the aerospace and arms industry. They not only get the value of the Israeli arms sales, of course, but also as Israel spends more, its neighbours do too and it's all good business thanks. (Of course the US subsidises Egypt and Saudi Arabia among others to spend on American weapon systems - such a great scam - HUGE as Trump would say). There is even a suggestion that Israel's economy is grotesquely distorted by this military largesse, though other forms of subsidy balance this by distorting the economy in other ways.

    The entire setup is disgusting and should make the average American blush with shame.