Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 27 Jul '16 18:27 / 3 edits
    In August 1944, Walter Manhard (a Luftwaffe officer) escaped from a POW camp
    in Canada and disappeared. After searching for him, the Canadian authorities
    concluded that he probably had died in his escape attempt, though his body was not found.
    But the Canadians were mistaken.

    Walter Manhard had a reputation as a 'hard' troublesome POW, who had
    a record of determined escape attempts. A friend of his, Franz von Werra
    (another Luftwaffe officer) had succeeded in escaping from Canada (when
    the USA was still neutral) and returning to Germany.

    Walter Manhard succeeded in escaping from Canada to the USA.
    Given that his English was far from fluent (he had spoken no English at all
    when he became a POW) and he presumably had no identity papers, he
    would have been conspicuous in New York, but somehow he managed
    to elude detection until the war ended. Perhaps he was helped by some
    American sympathizers.

    After the war, Walter Manhard preferred to take his chances as an illegal
    immigrant (an escaped POW and supposed 'fanatical Nazi' ) in the USA rather
    than return to the rubble of Germany. He became accepted, trusted, and
    even loved by some Americans, including the woman who married him.
    I don't know when or how he revealed his true identity to her.

    In 1952, after seeking legal advice, Walter Manhard turned himself in the authorities.
    An escaped POW, he asked for permission to remain legally in the USA.
    His wife, a US Navy officer, completely supported him and apparently
    was supported by her superiors in the US Navy. If Walter Manhard were
    deported to Germany, his wife would leave the US Navy as soon as possible
    and go with him. Should the US Navy be deprived of a valued officer?

    In the end, the humanitarian appeal of the Manhard family succeeded.
    Walter Manhard was allowed to remain in the USA. Many years later,
    he attended a reunion of German POWs in Canada, where some Canadians
    were surprised to learn that he was still alive. As far as I know, Walter
    Manhard led a quiet, productive life as a US resident, perhaps a US citizen.

    Would Walter Manhard have been treated with equal sympathy if he had
    been an escaped Japanese POW, who had married a white American woman?
    (Such interracial marriages were illegal in many states, but it would have
    been legal in New York.) I doubt it. Would an illegal immigrant be treated
    with less sympathy today if from Africa, Asia, or Latin America rather than Europe?

    So should Walter Manhard (an allegedly dangerous 'fanatical Nazi' ) have
    been deported to Germany? Or allowed to remain in the United States?

    While I loathe his presumed pro-Nazi beliefs during the war, I am glad that Walter
    Manhard's story apparently had a happy ending for himself, his wife, and their family.
  2. Subscriber mchill
    Infinitorum
    27 Jul '16 18:45
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    In August 1944, Walter Manhard (a Luftwaffe officer) escaped from a POW camp
    in Canada and disappeared. After searching for him, the Canadian authorities
    concluded that he probably had died in his escape attempt, though his body was not found.
    But the Canadians were mistaken.

    Walter Manhard had a reputation as a 'hard' troublesome POW, who had
    a r ...[text shortened]... t Walter
    Manhard's story apparently had a happy ending for himself, his wife, and their family.
    Duchess - Judging by the content of your past posts, I doubt this is a question you sincerely want answered. Your question is structured in a way to portray America and white people as racists, and while there is some truth to this, you seem content to turn a blind eye to the fact that other countries and other races are just as guilty of this practice. Is racism and sexism the only topics you have opinions on?

    ::Transmitted from one who seeks אֱמֶת::
  3. 27 Jul '16 19:14 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by mchill
    Duchess - Judging by the content of your past posts, I doubt this is a question you sincerely want answered. Your question is structured in a way to portray America and white people as racists, and while there is some truth to this, you seem content to turn a blind eye to the fact that other countries and other races are just as guilty of this practice. Is r ...[text shortened]... sm and sexism the only topics you have opinions on?

    ::Transmitted from one who seeks אֱמֶת::
    Mchill shows his poor 'reading comprehension'. Can Mchill comprehend my original post?

    First of all, Walter Manhard's story is an undeniably clear-cut case of someone who illegally entered the USA.
    Moreover, given his wartime record, there was reason to believe that he was loyal to an enemy of the USA.
    And I would submit that the Nazis were about the worst enemy ever faced by the USA.
    But Walter Manhard, who was *not afflicted by racism*, was allowed to remain in the USA.

    I was implicitly contrasting the US government's very compassionate treatment of Walter
    Manhard with its routine much harsher treatment of non-white illegal immigrants.
    And I note that Walter Manhard had been proud to have fought for Hitler.

    Mchill keeps showing that, like most right-wing white Americans, he's determined to deny,
    minimize, or excuse American racism by whatever disingenuous means seem necessary.
    So Mchill now evasively attempts to change the subject to racism outside the USA.

    Of course, I am aware that racism exists in societies other than the USA. But this is a forum
    dominated by Americans (and to a lesser extent by Britons), so the USA is the main subject.
    (Zahlanzi has written that no one else would care if he started a thread about Romania.)
    For the record, I have written here about racism in other societies, such as Israel or Japan.
    And. when I have been around enough Russians, for instance, I have criticized racism in Russia.

    Personally, again, I am glad that Walter Manhard was able to find happiness in the USA.
    I wish that the US government would be equally compassionate toward non-white illegal immigrants
    who may have stories of overcoming more adversity than he did (escaping from a POW camp).

    "Is (sic) racism and sexism the only topics you have opinions on?"
    --Mchill

    Mchill keeps showing his abysmal 'reading comprehension'.
    It would waste more of my time to respond to someone who's so prejudiced and nearly illiterate.
  4. Subscriber mchill
    Infinitorum
    27 Jul '16 19:57 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Mchill shows his poor 'reading comprehension'. Can Mchill comprehend my original post?

    First of all, Walter Manhard's story is an undeniably clear-cut case of someone who illegally entered the USA.
    Moreover, given his wartime record, there was reason to believe that he was loyal to an enemy of the USA.
    And I would submit that the Nazis were about the ...[text shortened]...
    It would waste more of my time to respond to someone who's so prejudiced and nearly illiterate.
    Duchess - I apologize deeply for my "abysmal 'reading comprehension" but this does not make what I said any less true. I'm not sure what your motives are for posts on only racism and sexism, but they seem obsessive, and would strongly suggest you have some unresolved personal issues.
  5. 27 Jul '16 20:03 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by mchill
    Duchess - I apologize deeply for my "abysmal 'reading comprehension" but this does not make what I said any less true.
    I'm not sure what your motives are for posts on only racism and sexism, but they seem obsessive, and would suggest you have some unresolved personal issues.
    In fact, what Mchill wrote was FALSE. It's obviously FALSE that all my posts at RHP are
    ONLY about racism or sexism (particularly in the USA). Anyone with even a minimum--
    which Mchill obviously lacks--of reading comprehension or honesty would know that reality.

    So I conclude that Mchill's another lying American troll (one of many) who's determined
    to keep denying, minimizing, or excusing racism and/or sexism in the United States.
    If Mchill were not an apparent right-wing fanatic, he should consider the ample evidence of
    many well-educated people beside me believing there's ample racism and sexism in the USA.
    But Mchill apparently prefers to believe that racism and sexism must be purely imaginary
    and beliefs in their existence in the USA can be held only by mentally disturbed persons.
  6. Subscriber mchill
    Infinitorum
    27 Jul '16 20:14 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    In fact, what Mchill wrote was FALSE. It's obviously FALSE that all my posts at RHP are
    ONLY about racism or sexism (particularly in the USA). Anyone with even a minimum--
    which Mchill obviously lacks--of reading comprehension or honesty would know that reality.

    So I conclude that Mchill's another lying American troll (one of many) who's determined
    to keep denying, minimizing, or excusing racism and/or sexism in the United States.
    Duchess - I apologize for my many shortcomings. I seem to have joined the majority of those here, whom you have chosen to attack, rather than simply debate with.
  7. 27 Jul '16 20:25 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by mchill
    Duchess - I apologize for my many shortcomings. I seem to have joined the majority of those here,
    whom you have chosen to attack, rather than simply disagree with.
    When Mchill persists in spewing falsehoods about what I write, I regard it as offensive
    and I point out such misconduct.

    Now *if* Mchill were to be more explicit (or more honest) and write that he believes that
    there's no racism and/or no sexism in the USA today and that anyone who believes that
    racism and/or sexism *does exist* in the USA must be likely mentally disturbed, then I
    would condemn Mchill as willfully blind to racism and/or sexism and as too stupid or
    dishonest (like about all right-wing white writers here) to consider the evidence.

    But I hope that Mchill would *not* take my criticism *personally*. My criticisms are
    based upon my assessments of the objective evidence of his posts' contents.

    How much would Mchill like to bet that I cannot find a post of mine that's *not* about racism or sexism?

    I note that Mchill has no apparent objection to people writing about racism or sexism as
    long as they deny that racism or sexism exist in the USA today. I would note that Mchill
    might be among the majority of Americans (particularly right-wing white men) *in this forum*
    who would deny that racism or sexism exist, but his apparent opinion is *not* among the
    majority of people in the world. But perhaps Mchill really believes that the Republican
    Party represents all the American people at their most diverse.
  8. 28 Jul '16 04:13
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    When Mchill persists in spewing falsehoods about what I write, I regard it as offensive
    and I point out such misconduct.

    Now *if* Mchill were to be more explicit (or more honest) and write that he believes that
    there's no racism and/or no sexism in the USA today and that anyone who believes that
    racism and/or sexism *does exist* in the USA must be li ...[text shortened]... y believes that the Republican
    Party represents all the American people at their most diverse.
    Do you think racism and sexism is worse in the USA than elsewhere? I'm pretty certain those, as well as other isms exist almost everywhere on the globe. Can you name a place where they don't?
  9. Subscriber FreakyKBH
    Acquired Taste...
    28 Jul '16 04:34
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    When Mchill persists in spewing falsehoods about what I write, I regard it as offensive
    and I point out such misconduct.

    Now *if* Mchill were to be more explicit (or more honest) and write that he believes that
    there's no racism and/or no sexism in the USA today and that anyone who believes that
    racism and/or sexism *does exist* in the USA must be li ...[text shortened]... y believes that the Republican
    Party represents all the American people at their most diverse.
    Now you're just parodying yourself, right?
    This is where we're all supposed to say, see: she (?) gets it! She (?) is in on the joke, the pariah, that her (?) online persona has become!
    She's (?) making fun of her(?)self!

    If so, please stomp one for yea, two cloven hooves for naaaaaay!
  10. 28 Jul '16 18:01 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Do you think racism and sexism is worse in the USA than elsewhere? I'm pretty certain those, as well
    as other isms exist almost everywhere on the globe. Can you name a place where they don't?
    Like other racist right-wing white Americans Normbenign hastens to excuse American
    racism by apparently claiming that racism must be at least as bad everywhere else.
    That depends upon what's being compared. As far as I know, the USA leads the world,
    for instance, in having white police officers shoot and kill unarmed black people.
    The USA has a common international reputation for being a deeply racist society.
  11. 30 Jul '16 05:47
    Stop immigration period, and Run all Muslims out of the Country period. You can have them Duchess.
  12. 30 Jul '16 09:16
    Originally posted by SERGEANTPMAIN
    Stop immigration period, and Run all Muslims out of the Country period. You can have them Duchess.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution