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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    14 Jun '17 23:43 / 1 edit
    https://www.counselmagazine.co.uk/articles/article-50-the-trigger-never-was

    This legal argument explains that, since the EU referendum was advisory and not in itself definitive, the Government has a duty to consider the decision properly, looking at all relevant factors, and not confine its attention to the simple majority outcome of the referendum. Any decision must consider the natonal interest and take into account the narrow margin of victory for Brexit and the large proportion of voters who did not participate, including citizens abroad who were deprived of a vote and should have been included.

    A decision to leave the EU, taken after such proper consideration, must be made in an explicit and unambiguous Act of Parliament. The government does not have the power to simply go ahead with Brexit without Parliamentary approval. Also, based on earlier decision of the Supreme Court ["Miller"], Parliament must be explicit in its decision, it is not acceptable to be evasive, ambiguous or to just somehow imply its decisions by proceeding as though the decision has already been made.

    Parliament has not, as a matter of fact, passed an Act deciding to leave the EU. Without such an Act, there is no basis for a S50 letter. So all in all, the government had no grounds for submitting its S50 letter to the president of the EU and that letter is legally meaningless. If the government continues to try negotiating withdrawal with the EU it will be open to challenge through judicial review, and can be ordered by the courts to stop.

    just as it is conceivable that any member state might seek in the ECJ to challenge the validity of the UK government’s contention that the UK has decided to leave, it is conceivable that if the government persists in the charade of claiming that the constitutional decision was made by the Referendum there must assuredly be counterpart legal redress available domestically. Any concerned UK citizen with the necessary funds might seek on ultra vires grounds to ban the government from executing a treaty of withdrawal under Art 263 of the 1969 Vienna Convention whatever the result of the negotiating process. Indeed it would conceivably be feasible to seek to prohibit the start or continuation of the negotiating process designed to procure that end, and here we shall be back to Miller. The delivery of the 29 March letter was a legal non-event and so probably not in itself unlawful, but beginning negotiations with a view to a making a withdrawal treaty not sanctioned by the UK Parliament would be likely to be unlawful. This is because, as Miller made clear, the government enjoys no unilateral prerogative power to withdraw from the EU.
  2. 15 Jun '17 03:33
    You never know, common sense may even one day prevail....I mean we've all had a bit of a laugh, now let's get down to thinking seriously about the future of Britain.
  3. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    15 Jun '17 05:36
    Said it once, said it a hundred times: Europe is better off without England... the trailer trash of the EU (the Americans of Europe)... dragging it's conservative, fear-mongering and racist claws behind us: goodbye and good riddance!

    I said Goodbye, sir!

    But, don't worry. When you're departing on the good ship Brittania, your bulldogs slobbering beside you (including their breathing problems) on deck as you wave your union jacks and sing "God save the Queen", we'll be on the quayside to wave you off.

    "Byeeeee... have a titanic great time!!"

    "Byeeee... we'll miss your drunk teenage slags in our bars!!!!"

    "You'll never.... walk.... aloooooonnnnneeeee...."
  4. 15 Jun '17 09:24
    Exclude Britain from EU and let them pay what they owe.
    But include them again when they want to be included with no more benefits as any other EU country.
    This is my opinion.

    If Scotland want to remain in EU, let them. Same goes for Northern Ireland. But only as sovereign states.
  5. 17 Jun '17 10:41
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Said it once, said it a hundred times: Europe is better off without England... the trailer trash of the EU (the Americans of Europe)... dragging it's conservative, fear-mongering and racist claws behind us: goodbye and good riddance!

    I said Goodbye, sir!

    But, don't worry. When you're departing on the good ship Brittania, your bulldogs slobbering besi ...[text shortened]... your drunk teenage slags in our bars!!!!"

    "You'll never.... walk.... aloooooonnnnneeeee...."
    Then you can be ruled by the Germans .
    Good luck with that one .
  6. 17 Jun '17 11:00 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by phil3000
    Then you can be ruled by the Germans .
    Good luck with that one .
    Still haven't figured out you got bamboozled by ol' Nigel on that one, did you? How about you take a minute of your time and try to figure out how the EU actually works?

    In the EU, smaller nation states have disproportionately large influence relative to their population. This is one of the reasons why the U.K. favoured the eastward expansion of the EU - wary of further European integration, the U.K. thought the smaller Eastern European countries (many of them with powerful nationalist movements) would block any progress towards a federal Europe. Germany is an important voice in Europe, but can do practically nothing without the consent of other European governments.

    Ironically, Brexit has lead to an increase in support for the EU among Europeans, as the reality of the benefits the EU provides begin to dawn on its citizens, and politicians are less able to shift the blame of everything towards the EU.
  7. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    17 Jun '17 14:31
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Still haven't figured out you got bamboozled by ol' Nigel on that one, did you? How about you take a minute of your time and try to figure out how the EU actually works?

    In the EU, smaller nation states have disproportionately large influence relative to their population. This is one of the reasons why the U.K. favoured the eastward expansion of the ...[text shortened]... on its citizens, and politicians are less able to shift the blame of everything towards the EU.
    The time bomb in Europe is ticking. (Can't you hear it?!) The current 'united EU' declarations are just rhetoric. Most likely Greece or Italy will be the cause of the implosion.

    Britain will be much better off on the outside.
  8. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    17 Jun '17 14:33
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Said it once, said it a hundred times: Europe is better off without England... the trailer trash of the EU (the Americans of Europe)... dragging it's conservative, fear-mongering and racist claws behind us: goodbye and good riddance!

    I said Goodbye, sir!

    But, don't worry. When you're departing on the good ship Brittania, your bulldogs slobbering besi ...[text shortened]... your drunk teenage slags in our bars!!!!"

    "You'll never.... walk.... aloooooonnnnneeeee...."
    Indeed. And you've been wrong a hundred times.

    Undervalue England or the UK at your peril.
  9. 17 Jun '17 15:01
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    The time bomb in Europe is ticking. (Can't you hear it?!) The current 'united EU' declarations are just rhetoric. Most likely Greece or Italy will be the cause of the implosion.

    Britain will be much better off on the outside.
    Yeah, the U.K. will be sooo much better off spending that £350 million on the NHS, right?
  10. 17 Jun '17 15:17
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    The time bomb in Europe is ticking. (Can't you hear it?!) The current 'united EU' declarations are just rhetoric. Most likely Greece or Italy will be the cause of the implosion.

    Britain will be much better off on the outside.
    I think the time bomb you can hear ticking is in England and it's ticking away much faster since Mrs May has been in charge.
  11. 17 Jun '17 15:26
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Yeah, the U.K. will be sooo much better off spending that £350 million on the NHS, right?
    A English friend of mine said that the NHS has so much money now that they give you 10 pounds each time you go to the doctor.
  12. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    17 Jun '17 16:30
    Originally posted by biffo konker
    I think the time bomb you can hear ticking is in England and it's ticking away much faster since Mrs May has been in charge.
    That's probably just the ticking of British industry and ingenuity.
  13. 17 Jun '17 18:11
    Originally posted by phil3000
    Then you can be ruled by the Germans .
    Good luck with that one .
    It seems that you don't like the Germans very much.Is it because of the football?
  14. 17 Jun '17 18:31
    Originally posted by biffo konker
    It seems that you don't like the Germans very much.Is it because of the football?
    I like the German people ,I have had some good times in Germany and I am jealous of just how good the German football team have been over the years .
    I just do not think a Europe led by a German leader is a good idea ,Merkel is full of remorse for her countries past and will make bad decisions because of it .
    Meine Kumpel
  15. 17 Jun '17 20:53
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    Indeed. And you've been wrong a hundred times.

    Undervalue England or the UK at your peril.
    In this I agree with you; the EU would have fared better with England in it, just as England would have fared better within the EU, which is why we shouldn't be leaving.