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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 24 Apr '10 14:04
    Yes I live here. If I were Mexican I would leave this bastion of apartheid. What passed is not an anti-immigration bill, it is anti-Mexican through and through.

    The law is NOT blind in Arizona.
  2. 24 Apr '10 15:06 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by badmoon
    Yes I live here. If I were Mexican I would leave this bastion of apartheid. What passed is not an anti-immigration bill, it is anti-Mexican through and through.

    The law is NOT blind in Arizona.
    Ok then, I'll simply take your word for it. Thanks for that.


    Edit: For future reference, you may want to cite some specific reasons as to why you feel the way you do. In fact, you might even cite a web site that backs up your claims or even a cite that lists what the bill entails. Then again, if its enough for me perhaps everyone else will follow?
  3. 24 Apr '10 15:13
    Originally posted by whodey
    Ok then, I'll simply take your word for it. Thanks for that.


    Edit: For future reference, you may want to cite some specific reasons as to why you feel the way you do. In fact, you might even cite a web site that backs up your claims or even a cite that lists what the bill entails. Then again, if its enough for me perhaps everyone else will follow?
    In brief then -

    Arizona's new immigration law
    • Prohibits state, city or county officials from limiting or restricting "the enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law" and allows an Arizona resident to sue an official or agency that adopts or implements a policy that does so. The bill contains a "loser pays" provision meant to deter frivolous lawsuits.

    • Requires law enforcement to make a reasonable attempt "when practicable" to determine the immigration status of a person if reasonable suspicion exists that the person is in the U.S. illegally. Officers do not have to do so "if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation."

    • Makes it a state crime to be an illegal immigrant by creating a state charge of "willful failure to complete or carry an alien-registration document."

    • Makes it a crime for illegal immigrants to work or solicit work in Arizona.

    • Makes it a crime to pick up a day laborer for work if the vehicle impedes traffic and also makes a day laborer subject to criminal charges if he or she is picked up and the vehicle involved impedes traffic.

    • Makes it a crime to conceal, harbor or shield an illegal immigrant if the person knows or recklessly disregards the immigrant's legal status. It does create a legal defense for someone providing emergency, public-safety or public-health services to illegal immigrants.

    • Allows law-enforcement officials to arrest a person without a warrant if they have probable cause to believe the person has committed a public offense that makes him or her removable from the U.S.

    • Requires employers to keep E-Verify records of employees' eligibility.

    • Reiterates Arizona's intent to not comply with the Real ID Act of 2005, including the use of a radio-frequency ID chip.

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  4. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    24 Apr '10 15:18
    I wonder if someone had a religious objection to this new law whether they might be entitled to ignore it or opt out. whodey, what do you think?
  5. 24 Apr '10 15:34
    Originally posted by FMF
    I wonder if someone had a religious objection to this new law whether they might be entitled to ignore it or opt out. whodey, what do you think?
    I'm not the one that made the religious exeption for the Amish. If you have a problem, take it up with Senator Chuck U Schumer.
  6. 24 Apr '10 16:22
    I'm trying to profile the bigots for profiling the Mexicans and you guys want to joke around about it!?!
  7. 24 Apr '10 16:43
    How would you go about proposing an anti-immigration bill?
  8. 24 Apr '10 17:13
    Originally posted by badmoon
    In brief then -

    Arizona's new immigration law
    • Prohibits state, city or county officials from limiting or restricting "the enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law" and allows an Arizona resident to sue an official or agency that adopts or implements a policy that does so. The bill contains a "loser p ...[text shortened]...
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    • Requires law enforcement to make a reasonable attempt "when practicable" to determine the immigration status of a person if reasonable suspicion exists that the person is in the U.S. illegally. Officers do not have to do so "if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation."

    so in order words, if you're brown they'll be targeting you, indeed this seems pretty unreasonable.

    As for the rest, I don't see what is wrong with it.
  9. Standard member joneschr
    Some guy
    24 Apr '10 17:21 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    [b]• Requires law enforcement to make a reasonable attempt "when practicable" to determine the immigration status of a person if reasonable suspicion exists that the person is in the U.S. illegally. Officers do not have to do so "if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation."

    so in order words, if you're brown they'll be targetin ...[text shortened]... ed this seems pretty unreasonable.

    As for the rest, I don't see what is wrong with it.[/b]
    Why do you say that? It says if "reasonable suspicion exists that the person is in the U.S. illegally.

    Are you asserting that being brown causes reasonable suspicion that you are in the U.S. illegally? That's a pretty racist statement.
  10. 24 Apr '10 17:28
    Originally posted by joneschr
    Why do you say that? It says if "reasonable suspicion exists that the person is in the U.S. illegally.

    Are you asserting that being brown causes reasonable suspicion that you are in the U.S. illegally? That's a pretty racist statement.
    It says "Requires law enforcement to make a reasonable attempt "when practicable" to determine the immigration status of a person", in what way can this be interpreted as "reasonable"?

    Are you asserting that being brown causes reasonable suspicion that you are in the U.S. illegally? That's a pretty racist statement.

    Im no racist, Im just being realistic. Im not saying I'd target brown people if I were in law enforcement in arizona, what Im saying is that I have a feeling they'll be targeting brown people because I assume you and I both know the majority of illegals in arizona are mexicans.
  11. Standard member joneschr
    Some guy
    24 Apr '10 17:34 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    It says "Requires law enforcement to make a reasonable attempt "when practicable" to determine the immigration status of a person", in what way can this be interpreted as "reasonable"?

    [b]Are you asserting that being brown causes reasonable suspicion that you are in the U.S. illegally? That's a pretty racist statement.


    Im no racist, Im just because I assume you and I both know the majority of illegals in arizona are mexicans.[/b]
    It only requires law enforcement to make determine immigration status IF there is reason to believe they are illegal.

    It doesn't require them to make a check if there is no reason to suspect.

    That seems to be something you're adding yourself.

    Yes, I agree, that the majority of illegals are latino (I really have no idea if they're mexicans). That doesn't mean that law enforcement has any right or responsibility to check them all -- they need some reason to suspect they are illegal.

    I don't believe that "being brown" would ever pass as reason to suspect someone is illegal. Watch a cop try that in court.
  12. 24 Apr '10 17:42
    Originally posted by joneschr
    It only requires law enforcement to make determine immigration status [b]IF there is reason to believe they are illegal.

    It doesn't require them to make a check if there is no reason to suspect.

    That seems to be something you're adding yourself.

    Yes, I agree, that the majority of illegals are latino (I really have no idea if they're mexicans). ...[text shortened]... would ever pass as reason to suspect someone is illegal. Watch a cop try that in court.[/b]
    what reasons do you think would lead an officer to believe someone is an illegal immigrant?

    don't you think this law gives a green light to racial profiling?
  13. 24 Apr '10 18:31 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by badmoon
    In brief then -

    Arizona's new immigration law
    • Prohibits state, city or county officials from limiting or restricting "the enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law" and allows an Arizona resident to sue an official or agency that adopts or implements a policy that does so. The bill contains a "loser p
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    What do you suggest be done about it badmoon? There are 12-16 million illegals here.Thats 12-16 million jobs working class Americans do not have. Boarder towns are being over run and some Americans are even being murdered in cold blood in the process.

    Is not one of the governments duties to protect its citizens?

    As far as stopping people and asking for proof of citizenship ,etc this is nothing new. Cops can and do all over the country question people (of any race) who are hanging about, for ID. You got no ID, no money, you can be arrested for vagrancy.

    Bottom line is if you are here illegally,you got to go! Thats not bigotry its the law.
  14. 24 Apr '10 18:37 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    what reasons do you think would lead an officer to believe someone is an illegal immigrant?

    don't you think this law gives a green light to racial profiling?
    I don't think this law is any different than the ones already in effect for stopping vehicles on a road.
  15. 24 Apr '10 18:42 / 1 edit
    Besides the profiling is the added proviso that if you are hoarding (living with, staying with) an undocumented person you also will be prsocuted.

    Remember, we have nuts like Joe Arpaio running things down here who use these laws to do roundups simply becuase they can, not due to any motivation.

    It is expected that the reaction nationally will be harsh - conventions cancelled, businesses not wanting to create here, and the embarrassment of the whole thing.