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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    03 Nov '17 16:47 / 3 edits
    If you're a political junkie, you've already seen this article and probably read it 4 times, but it's a pretty incredible takedown of Hillary and the entire Democratic leadership structure from Donna Brazille, a consummate Democratic insider. Obama himself comes in for some pretty savage criticism ("President Barack Obama’s neglect had left the party in significant debt" ).

    It's a pretty incredible article, if you think about it.

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774
  2. Standard member vivify
    rain
    03 Nov '17 16:47
    Originally posted by @sh76
    If you're a political junkie, you've already seen this article and probably read it 4 times, but it's a pretty incredible takedown of Hillary and the entire Democratic leadership structure from a consummate Democratic insider. Obama himself comes in for some pretty savage criticism ("President Barack Obama’s neglect had left the party in significant debt" ).

    It's a pretty incredible article, if you think about it.
    Link?
  3. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    03 Nov '17 16:48
    Originally posted by @vivify
    Link?
    Oops. Sorry; I added it.
  4. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    03 Nov '17 16:51 / 1 edit
    That Hillary is now totally washed up in American politics is self-evident, but I'm very surprised at how savagely the Democrats are turning on her.
  5. 03 Nov '17 16:58
    It's perhaps useful context that Brazile is selling a book.
  6. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    03 Nov '17 21:07
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    It's perhaps useful context that Brazile is selling a book.
    That's a silly, petty misdirection, and I think you know that.
  7. 03 Nov '17 21:18
    Originally posted by @sh76
    That Hillary is now totally washed up in American politics is self-evident, but I'm very surprised at how savagely the Democrats are turning on her.
    Don't forget how they are going after Hillary supporters like Harvey Weinstein

    The Dims are trying to reinvent themselves, with the guise that they actually care about right and wrong.
  8. 04 Nov '17 00:11
    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/could-it-be-that-both-parties-are-doomed/ar-AAunRSX

    "The GOP is running as smoothly as a dry Slip 'N Slide made from sandpaper. That the party is as dysfunctional as the human resources department at the Weinstein Company stems from a host of ideological, political and structural problems that are only compounded by the fact that the president grabs the public's attention like a spider monkey running through a church with a lit stick of dynamite.
    The Democratic Party, meanwhile, has gotten drunk on the spectacle. And as with many a drunk, it's grown oblivious to its own decrepitude. Like a bitter lush sitting in his own filth amidst a sea of empty bottles, moldering pizza boxes and fried chicken bones, it shouts at the TV and boasts how it could do better.
    Donna Brazile, the longtime high-ranking Democratic functionary, was made interim chair of the party shortly before the 2016 election in the wake of revelations that the previous chair, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, seemed to be playing favorites in the primaries, tilting the scales toward Hillary Clinton and against Bernie Sanders. In an excerpt from her forthcoming book, "Hacks," Brazile reports that Wasserman Schultz wasn't simply partial towards Clinton. She was in fact Clinton's vassal."


    "Brazile reports that the party was so hollowed out with debt that Hillary Clinton essentially scooped it up in a distress sale. Wasserman Schultz cut a deal with the Clinton campaign in which Clinton would raise millions ostensibly for the party, particularly at the state level. But those funds were sluiced back into the Clinton campaign coffers in Brooklyn, and the campaign extracted de facto control of the party's messaging and hiring. Team Clinton mocked Sanders as a paranoid dotard for claiming that the Democratic primary system was rigged against him. As it happens, his paranoia didn't go far enough.
    It seems axiomatic that any party weak enough to be taken over by Hillary Clinton is not in good health."

    "But the important point is that dysfunction isn't zero-sum. Right now, the best argument Republicans have is "we're not Democrats," and the best argument Democrats have is "we're not Republicans." Like two punch-drunk pugilists leaning on each other in the 12th round, if one falls, the other may well fall too.
    Everywhere else in America today, disrupters -- Uber, Amazon, etc. -- are dismantling established institutions. Perhaps both political parties are the next institutions to crumble under creative destruction. Or maybe not. But if it happens, no one can say they didn't have it coming."
  9. 04 Nov '17 11:02
    Originally posted by @sh76
    That's a silly, petty misdirection, and I think you know that.
    Is it? How many books would Brazile sell if she were to say: "passing a debate question to Clinton was unethical, for Clinton to accept it was unethical. In the grand scheme of things, it made no difference. The DNC is a weak organization and its influence on elections and politics is minute compared to the rampant bribery and corruption that Americans continue to allow to exist with impunity"?

    Not many, I reckon. And how much closer would she be to the truth?
  10. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    04 Nov '17 11:25
    Originally posted by @sh76
    If you're a political junkie, you've already seen this article and probably read it 4 times, but it's a pretty incredible takedown of Hillary and the entire Democratic leadership structure from Donna Brazille, a consummate Democratic insider. Obama himself comes in for some pretty savage criticism ("President Barack Obama’s neglect had left the party in signif ...[text shortened]... bout it.

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774
    Everybody knew the Democratic Party machine favored Hillary over Bernie. While the state of Democratic Party finances wasn't public knowledge, I really don't see what the big deal is. The bottom line is that no matter what the preferences of the party insiders, if Bernie had gotten more votes in the primaries than Hillary he would have won the nomination.
  11. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    04 Nov '17 11:40
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    Everybody knew the Democratic Party machine favored Hillary over Bernie. While the state of Democratic Party finances wasn't public knowledge, I really don't see what the big deal is. The bottom line is that no matter what the preferences of the party insiders, if Bernie had gotten more votes in the primaries than Hillary he would have won the nomination.
    ...The bottom line is that no matter what the preferences of the party insiders, if Bernie had gotten more votes in the primaries than Hillary he would have won the nomination.

    Sort of weird thing to say in the context. Would a fair process have produced a different result? What is the point of manipulating the process if it does not produce the desired impact on voting outcomes?
  12. 04 Nov '17 11:48
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    ...The bottom line is that no matter what the preferences of the party insiders, if Bernie had gotten more votes in the primaries than Hillary he would have won the nomination.

    Sort of weird thing to say in the context. Would a fair process have produced a different result? What is the point of manipulating the process if it does not produce the desired impact on voting outcomes?
    The point is that the DNC was in no position to sway enough votes in a primary that wasn't close enough for the DNC's preference to matter. The damage was done long before the primaries started, when Joe Biden decided not to run.
  13. Subscriber mchill
    cryptogram
    04 Nov '17 11:56 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by @sh76
    That Hillary is now totally washed up in American politics is self-evident, but I'm very surprised at how savagely the Democrats are turning on her.
    As a left leaning Independent, I think Hillary Clinton has created her own problems and deserves what she get's. The right wing is politicizing her email scandal of course, but they have some legitimate complaints, what she did was just plain stupid.

    Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are the lowest quality major party candidates for President I've ever seen, I can only hope the election of 2020 will bring something better.
  14. 04 Nov '17 12:00 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @mchill
    As a left leaning Independent, I think Hillary Clinton has created her own problems and deserves what she get's. The right wing is politicizing her email scandal of course, but they have some legitimate complaints, what she did was just plain stupid.

    Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are the lowest quality major party candidates for President I've ever seen, I can only hope the election of 2020 will bring something better.
    It's not just about the e-mails

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Esa0alYZkbE

    She is quit possibly the worst candidate in about a century.
  15. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    04 Nov '17 13:01
    Originally posted by @whodey
    She is quit possibly the worst candidate in about a century.
    Hold on there, Hoss.

    I'd say that was Donald Trump.

    And he got elected anyway, which says volumes about Americans.