15 Nov 07
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7092053.stm
"The US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are costing nearly double the amount previously thought, according to a report by Democrats in the US Congress. They say "hidden costs" have pushed the total to about $1.5 trillion - nearly twice the requested $804bn"
"Between 2002 and 2008 the campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan will have cost the average US family of four about $20,900. The report adds that the amount could rise to $46,400 over the next decade."
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To the average American, that really does seem to be alot of money for nothing in return. And that's not taking into account the loss of life.
So to all my fellow US RHP users, and I’m not trying to bash the US, but i am interested in knowing what you as the average American have gained from this war?
I am genuinely interested. With all the cr@p that flies around here I never really get to see what benefits are gained by the average Joe.
15 Nov 07
Originally posted by EsotericSince thats a figure propagated by the progressives (aka liberals) there is no sense lening it any credence....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7092053.stm
"The US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are costing nearly double the amount previously thought, according to a report by Democrats in the US Congress. They say "hidden costs" have pushed the total to about $1.5 trillion - nearly twice the requested $804bn"
"Between 2002 and 2008 the campaigns in Iraq and A ...[text shortened]... flies around here I never really get to see what benefits are gained by the average Joe.
15 Nov 07
Originally posted by EsotericElimination of a terror sponsoring state .
Yeah thats a fair enough point, there would be a degree of spin on that but i am still curious to see what you have gained as an avarage American.
Elimination of WMDs' Yep, they were never found, why? Because they were destroyed before or shortly after the invasion began by Iraqi military, option B. They are still hidden somewhere in Iraq, maybe never to be discovered. Or they were trucked off to Syria.
Country in the region that if it can be established as a stable, parlimentary republic (I don't seeing it being a democracy) can be a bulwark against a radical Islamic fundamentalist state ... aka Iran.
Something that won't happen overnight.
It acted as magnet to attract anti-American extremists to come and be killed It could be argued, it prevented them from trying to attack American soil directly.
Saddam will not being causing any more problems in the region ever again.
15 Nov 07
Originally posted by SMSBear716See Saddam actually suppressed any extremist activities in Iraq (sometimes brutally). Under Saddam’s regime, there were no fundamental Islamic terrorists. Look it up if you don't believe me.
Elimination of a terror sponsoring state .
Elimination of WMDs' Yep, they were never found, why? Because they were destroyed before or shortly after the invasion began by Iraqi military, option B. They are still hidden somewhere in Iraq, maybe never to be discovered. Or they were trucked off to Syria.
Country in the region that if it can be establish ...[text shortened]... soil directly.
Saddam will not being causing any more problems in the region ever again.
And there were no weapons of WMD. Stop kidding yourself.
Also, over the last 15 or so years, Iraq was quite stable and not causing trouble.
But you still haven’t told me how it has affected you personally in your homeland.
15 Nov 07
1 edit
Originally posted by EsotericThe cost of the Iraqi war 1.5 trillion dollars. The sight of watching Saddam eating doritos in his underware like a college student behind bars, priceless. 😛
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7092053.stm
"The US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are costing nearly double the amount previously thought, according to a report by Democrats in the US Congress. They say "hidden costs" have pushed the total to about $1.5 trillion - nearly twice the requested $804bn"
"Between 2002 and 2008 the campaigns in Iraq and A flies around here I never really get to see what benefits are gained by the average Joe.
15 Nov 07
Originally posted by EsotericTo understand it all you have to know a bit more about economics. You see all that money (most of it anyway) was spent in the US, so it didn't actually go anywhere.
To the average American, that really does seem to be alot of money for nothing in return. And that's not taking into account the loss of life.
If they were lucky and managed to sell some of their arms (and reconstruction/security services) to the other allys in Iraq then they might even have made a tidy profit.
Also there are the economic benefits of the oil. I am sure the US is now getting oil from Iraq, either for free or at a discount, whereas before it was all going to other countries.
Also the stated cost is not necessarily the actual cost if for example old weapons / ammunition was used that would otherwise have been simply discarded it still may go on the accounts as a cost.
I do not know much about the world oil markets but I do know that oil is mostly traded in US dollars and that that benefits the US economy some how. It is quite likely that the higher price of oil as a result of the war, benefited the US.
So you see its not nearly as simple as each US citizen taking 20,000 dollars out of the bank and sending it to Iraq.
The biggest loss to the US is probably not monetary but political.
15 Nov 07
1 edit
Originally posted by SMSBear716You really should drop the political hack from your persona. It's not a hard statistic to come up with. You take the cost of the war in real dollars over the last 4.5 years and then divide that by the number of households (weighted by household size) in the US.
Since thats a figure propagated by the progressives (aka liberals) there is no sense lening it any credence....
Now, instead of pulling a Hannity (i.e. turning of the brain and breaking out the whine) a more intelligent dismissal of the figure is simply to point out that it isn't very relevant. The war does not actually cost $20,000 dollars to the average US family of four. The war is funded by government revenues and debt. Just a fraction of new debt will be paid by current citizens. Furthermore, only a small portion of tax revenue comes from the average family of four for two reasons:
1) The bulk of said household's tax liability takes the form of income taxes. Our income tax schedule is progressive, so the average household pays much lower than the average tax burden.
2) There are many other tax sources to which the average family of four is not a proportionate contributor (e.g. corporate taxes, capital gains taxes, tariffs, property taxes).
Basically, the 1+ trillion burden is not spread evenly over the US population (present and future), so while the figure is interesting in that it gives one a sense of magnitude, it should be taken with a large grain of salt.
15 Nov 07
Originally posted by telerionReminds us again of how much is total government spending in the US per year.
You really should drop the political hack from your persona. It's not a hard statistic to come up with. You take the cost of the war in real dollars over the last 4.5 years and then divide that by the number of households (weighted by household size) in the US.
Now, instead of pulling a Hannity (i.e. turning of the brain and breaking out the whine) a ...[text shortened]... ing in that it gives one a sense of magnitude, it should be taken with a large grain of salt.
15 Nov 07
Originally posted by EsotericGreater security for the United States and her allies .
See Saddam actually suppressed any extremist activities in Iraq (sometimes brutally). Under Saddam’s regime, there were no fundamental Islamic terrorists. Look it up if you don't believe me.
And there were no weapons of WMD. Stop kidding yourself.
Also, over the last 15 or so years, Iraq was quite stable and not causing trouble.
But you still haven’t told me how it has affected you personally in your homeland.
Iraq was stable the last 15 yrs and peaceful? well, Lets get back a tad further... multiple wars against Iran (not entirely a bad thing), Invasion of Kuwait, causing instability in the Guld region. Funding Palestinian terrorists. Lets not forget those items.
I would say protecting our source of oil.... but thats a myth since the United States has the largest undeveloped oil reserves in the world that are known.
15 Nov 07
1 edit
Originally posted by EsotericI think you also need to include other costs such as the economy, the 26 year low of the dollar against sterling......whenever a economy starts to go under a little, a war is a good way to boost it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7092053.stm
"The US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are costing nearly double the amount previously thought, according to a report by Democrats in the US Congress. They say "hidden costs" have pushed the total to about $1.5 trillion - nearly twice the requested $804bn"
"Between 2002 and 2008 the campaigns in Iraq and A flies around here I never really get to see what benefits are gained by the average Joe.
As one of the postings mentioned, most of the money is spend in the UStrue , buts its US taxpayers money that is being used to purchase weapons etc which in turn are being used in Iraq , Afganistan.
Ulitmility, the rest of the world does know why the war is occuring and it has nothing to do with WMD's for example
The direct result is that the US global image if falling sharpy. Trade surplus is increasing, this will impact jobs in the US for the average american
So for the avaerage american, (who probably never leaves the US, let alone have a passport) its off no value as they do not directly see this impact until they lose thier job.
I have many american friends that do travel, they are always telling me that they canlt go around saying they are American as they "get S**T",.
20 Nov 07
Originally posted by RSMA1234I travel over seas and I tell people I'm American and I don't get any S*it about it.
I think you also need to include other costs such as the economy, the 26 year low of the dollar against sterling......whenever a economy starts to go under a little, a war is a good way to boost it.
As one of the postings mentioned, most of the money is spend in the UStrue , buts its US taxpayers money that is being used to purchase weapons etc which in ...[text shortened]... are always telling me that they canlt go around saying they are American as they "get S**T",.