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  1. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    15 Feb '12 16:10 / 3 edits
    The Democratic incumbent has surrounded himself with conservative advisors and key figures — many from previous administrations, and an unprecedented number from the Trilateral Commission. He also appointed a former Monsanto executive as Senior Advisor to the FDA. He has extended Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, presided over a spiralling rich-poor gap and sacrificed further American jobs with recent free trade deals.Trade union rights have also eroded under his watch. He has expanded Bush defence spending, droned civilians, failed to close Guantanamo, supported the NDAA which effectively legalises martial law, allowed drilling and adopted a soft-touch position towards the banks that is to the right of European Conservative leaders. We list these because many of Obama’s detractors absurdly portray him as either a radical liberal or a socialist, while his apologists, equally absurdly, continue to view him as a well-intentioned progressive, tragically thwarted by overwhelming pressures. 2008's yes-we-can chanters, dazzled by pigment rather than policy detail, forgot to ask can what? Between 1998 and the last election, Obama amassed $37.6million from the financial services industry, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. While 2008 presidential candidate Obama appeared to champion universal health care, his first choice for Secretary of Health was a man who had spent years lobbying on behalf of the pharmaceutical industry against that very concept. Hey! You don't promise a successful pub, and then appoint the Salvation Army to run it. This time around, the honey-tongued President makes populist references to economic justice, while simultaneously appointing as his new Chief of Staff a former Citigroup executive concerned with hedge funds that bet on the housing market to collapse. Obama poses something of a challenge to The Political Compass, because he's a man of so few fixed principles.


    http://politicalcompass.org/uselection2012

    Now, the rest of that page shows many startling mistakes and misconceptions about US politics. It was obviously not written by an American, which is fine, but that author's knowledge of American politics is obviously so weak that anything he writes in that arena has to be taken with a grain of salt.

    Still, what of his staunch criticism of Obama as a conservative in sheep's clothing and as being significantly more conservative than John McCain, circa 2008 primary season (http://politicalcompass.org/uselection2008)?
  2. 15 Feb '12 16:19
    Well, it's no news that the Democrats are to the "right" (in terms of taxes, government spending, social security, etc.) of European conservatives.

    How Obama compares to how McCain would have been is hard to say.
  3. 19 Feb '12 21:37
    Originally posted by sh76
    [quote]The Democratic incumbent has surrounded himself with conservative advisors and key figures — many from previous administrations, and an unprecedented number from the Trilateral Commission. He also appointed a former Monsanto executive as Senior Advisor to the FDA. He has extended Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, presided over a spiralling rich-poor gap and ...[text shortened]... e than John McCain, circa 2008 primary season (http://politicalcompass.org/uselection2008)?
    Yet, the right-wingers call him a socialist. The President is definitely a moderate and can lean to the right ocassionally just like Clinton did. Ask any liberal Democrat.
  4. 19 Feb '12 22:16 / 5 edits
    Originally posted by sh76
    [quote]The Democratic incumbent has surrounded himself with conservative advisors and key figures — many from previous administrations, and an unprecedented number from the Trilateral Commission. He also appointed a former Monsanto executive as Senior Advisor to the FDA. He has extended Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, presided over a spiralling rich-poor gap and e than John McCain, circa 2008 primary season (http://politicalcompass.org/uselection2008)?
    So if Obama is a conservative with the US deficit of $1.6 trillion, does that mean a liberal would run twice that at about $3.2 trillion?

    Also, instead of fighting three wars at once like Obama, does this mean a liberal would fight 6 wars at once?

    And lastly, instead of only enacting one massive entitlement program like Obamacare, does this mean a liberal would have enacted two instead of just one?

    Then again, Obama is doing pretty much the same things "W" did and we all know "W" was a conservative, right? Pfft.

    I'd say trying to find a conservative in Washington is akin to trying to find a progressive at a Klan rally. Sure, there are some more liberal than his other peers........well....sort of. After all, one of them might own a black cat or dog.....before they hang it, that is.
  5. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    20 Feb '12 07:00
    Originally posted by moon1969
    Yet, the right-wingers call him a socialist. The President is definitely a moderate and can lean to the right ocassionally just like Clinton did. Ask any liberal Democrat.
    Most sane people who call Obama a socialist do so on the theory that he's "really" a socialist but just could not get away with socialist policies because there aren't enough liberal members of Congress to allow him to do so. Personally, I don't quite buy this theory, though there's no question that if he were, say, Supreme Emperor and not President, his policies would be far more liberal.

    Unfortunately, in my view, the President has taken some of the worst policies of both political viewpoints. We need to cut spending but huge pork laden stimulus packages sap the federal budget. We need to raise taxes, but on THAT issue, he capitulates to the GOP. While some sort of healthcare reform is a good idea, the President's idea of keeping it entirely in the private sector but adding massive new regulatory systems and govt spending to it is hardly ideal.

    I like the fact that Obama has governed as a moderate, but IMO he has moderated on many of the wrong issues. That is why, though I think Obama is a smart guy and I really think he's doing his best, I would likely vote for Romney over him.

    If the GOP nominates Santorum in the other hand, well then all bets are off. I honestly don't know what I'd do... Maybe I will look into 3rd party candidates.
  6. 20 Feb '12 21:36
    I don't know if he was to the "right" of McCain, but he was definitely more hawkish, and proved to be. It's funny, but in that second debate about aggression in Pakistan if the opportunity presented itself, I sided with McCain. Obama kept his promise and killed Bin Ladin and others. Apparently he doesn't really care about the alliance with Pakistan, after Bush spent years cultivating it and giving them F-16's which would only be used against India (the only democracy in the region).

    Honestly, it puts me into a quandary.
  7. 21 Feb '12 00:43
    This is how you know he's a moderate.

    The extreme right thinks he's an extremist Liberal tree-hugging pinko Commie, and the extreme left thinks he's a Republican in Democratic clothing.
  8. 26 Feb '12 16:40
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    I don't know if he was to the "right" of McCain, but he was definitely more hawkish, and proved to be. It's funny, but in that second debate about aggression in Pakistan if the opportunity presented itself, I sided with McCain. Obama kept his promise and killed Bin Ladin and others. Apparently he doesn't really care about the alliance with Pakistan, after ...[text shortened]... ainst India (the only democracy in the region).

    Honestly, it puts me into a quandary.
    Yes, Obama campaigned in 2008 on increasing the military effort in Afghanistan. In general, Obama can definitely be hawkish.
  9. 28 Feb '12 04:47 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    So if Obama is a conservative with the US deficit of $1.6 trillion, does that mean a liberal would run twice that at about $3.2 trillion?

    Also, instead of fighting three wars at once like Obama, does this mean a liberal would fight 6 wars at once?

    And lastly, instead of only enacting one massive entitlement program like Obamacare, does this mean a liber After all, one of them might own a black cat or dog.....before they hang it, that is.
    No, a Liberal would run a surplus.
    No, a Liberal would end the wars with victory and bring the troops home.
    No, a Liberal would have passed single-payer and leeching insurance company middle men would cease taking profits from the sick and forming death panels for the American people.

    I defer to your greater knowledge of what is found at klan rallies but you consistently sound like you know nothing of America and care less for what you do know.
  10. 28 Feb '12 05:14
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    This is how you know he's a moderate.

    The extreme right thinks he's an extremist Liberal tree-hugging pinko Commie, and the extreme left thinks he's a Republican in Democratic clothing.
    Good one.
  11. 28 Feb '12 05:46
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    No, a Liberal would run a surplus.
    No, a Liberal would end the wars with victory and bring the troops home.
    No, a Liberal would have passed single-payer and leeching insurance company middle men would cease taking profits from the sick and forming death panels for the American people.

    I defer to your greater knowledge of what is found at klan rallie ...[text shortened]... but you consistently sound like you know nothing of America and care less for what you do know.
    Whodey may well have consistently cultivated a reputation of ideological radicality in the forums, but to his credit he has always maintained a courteous style of debate despite the kind of vicious abuse and teasing he gets from others here. In light of this it seems a little unreasonable to sling even more mud with these careless claims of Klan membership, and the like.

    Im sure whodey, by virtue of his fearless irreverence and political acumen, may have at times aligned himself with unsavory characters on the right, but his contributions are nevertheless valuable in the sense that they're a manifestation of the voice of the silent majority of Americans who have long been disillusioned with their political system, and especially the blunders of the quasi-socialist Obama administration.
  12. 28 Feb '12 14:18 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    Whodey may well have consistently cultivated a reputation of ideological radicality in the forums, but to his credit he has always maintained a courteous style of debate despite the kind of vicious abuse and teasing he gets from others here. In light of this it seems a little unreasonable to sling even more mud with these careless claims of Klan member heir political system, and especially the blunders of the quasi-socialist Obama administration.
    Did you read his post? He is the one that claimed knowledge of the klan. Should we assume that he is a liar? (Like people telling us that the vast majority of Americans oppose the socialist Obama?)
  13. 28 Feb '12 15:36
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    Did you read his post? He is the one that claimed knowledge of the klan. Should we assume that he is a liar? (Like people telling us that the vast majority of Americans oppose the socialist Obama?)
    Yes, I did. Indeed, but that particular remark was obviously done with the purposes of comedy and entertainment in mind, I doubt whodey has actually sought progressives in Klan rallies or anything like that. Well, that is a well-known fact, I get my news from Fox and that is certainly the picture of the American political landscape they continually paint.
  14. 28 Feb '12 20:07
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    Did you read his post? He is the one that claimed knowledge of the klan. Should we assume that he is a liar? (Like people telling us that the vast majority of Americans oppose the socialist Obama?)
    In about 1977, I saw a klan rally/cross burning when I was a kid. A girl from church brought us there on a late evening as a suprise. We sat in the car and watched from afar. She told us her dad was the regional grand dragon.