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  1. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    30 Aug '14 17:05
    BDS Slings More Mud At Israel Hoping Some Will Stick

    Anti-Israel leftist increase their BDS campaign of propaganda lies against Israel by bringing an Apartheid wall to college campus in the USA again depicting the Israelis as immoral oppressive occupiers of Palestinian land.


    http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/02/vicious-and-deceptive-anti-israel-propaganda-hate-week-starts/

    The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Movement (BDS Movement) is a global campaign attempting to increase economic and political pressure on Israel to comply with the stated goals of the movement: the end of Israeli occupation and colonization of Palestinian land, full equality for Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel, and respect for the right of return of Palestinian refugees.

    The campaign was started on 9 July 2005 by 171 Palestinian non-governmental organizations in support of the Palestinian cause for boycott, divestment and international sanctions against Israel. Citing a body of UN resolutions and specifically echoing the anti-apartheid campaigns against white minority rule in apartheid era South Africa, the BDS campaign called for "various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law".
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott,_Divestment_and_Sanctions
  2. 30 Aug '14 17:47 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    [b]BDS Slings More Mud At Israel Hoping Some Will Stick

    Anti-Israel leftist increase their BDS campaign of propaganda lies against Israel by bringing an Apartheid wall to college campus in the USA again depicting the Israelis as immoral oppressive occupiers of Palestinian land.


    http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/02/vicious-and-deceptive-anti-israel- ...[text shortened]... ations under international law".
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott,_Divestment_and_Sanctions[/b]
    awesome! You see Hinds there are people who realize that despite the shortsighted nature of violence that there are other ways of achieving ones aims. Hamas and the Israeli army have yet to realize this fact and actually boycotting goods and services is an excellent and peaceful way to bring pressure to bear on a state that has murdered innocent women and children and killed civilians in the thousands. Only yesterday i was reading of all the companies linked to Israel and I will also be boycotting them, from MacCrapdolds to Nestle.

    There is nothing either vicious or deceptive about it.
  3. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    30 Aug '14 18:07
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    awesome! You see Hinds there are people who realize that despite the shortsighted nature of violence that there are other ways of achieving ones aims. Hamas and the Israeli army have yet to realize this fact and actually boycotting goods and services is an excellent and peaceful way to bring pressure to bear on a state that has murdered innocent wo ...[text shortened]... ing them, from MacCrapdolds to Nestle.

    There is nothing either vicious or deceptive about it.
    You mean like this:

    Anti-Israel groups, such as Students for Justice in Palestine, are preparing to mount massive BDS campaigns on campuses across the country, such as the University of California at Los Angeles.

    Once again, we can expect Jewish students to face a barrage of anti-Jewish stereotypes and defamations, anti-Israel smears, factual exaggerations, and outright falsehoods, together with just enough factually accurate criticism to disguise the entire charade as a legitimate political movement. Until recently, campus-based BDS campaigns were all losers. Student groups inevitably saw these tawdry efforts for what they were. Even then, the Jewish community paid a price, as Israel’s image was falsely connected in students’ minds with incomparable topics such as South African apartheid and Nazi Germany. Last year, the situation deteriorated, especially in California, as several student governments actually passed BDS resolutions. Ultimately, these resolutions are empty gestures. American student governments have no power to act on the resolutions by, e.g., divesting from companies that do business by government. And university administrators, being grownups, invariably reject the motions. But the damage is nonetheless done, even when ultimately BDS fails, because the anti-Israel groups often smear Israel and the Jewish community with impunity.

    In the wake these campaigns, the campus situation for Jewish students often deteriorates, and Jewish students are sometimes spit at, threatened, and assaulted. The Louis D. Brandeis Center continually monitors problematic campuses, sometimes with personnel on the ground, for evidence that Jewish students are being harassed. In some cases, anti-Israel extremists create a hostile environment for Jewish students that violates state and federal laws, such as Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. In other cases, anti-Jewish attacks involve criminal activities, such as vandalism or assault. Public universities also sometimes violate the constitutional rights of Jewish and pro-Israel students, sometime suppressing their lawful right to free speech. Not all criticisms of Israel are anti-Semitic, and not all anti-Semitism is unlawful. Even the vilest of anti-Semites is entitled to the full protections of the First Amendment and the doctrine of academic freedom. Nevertheless, when BDS campaigners cross the line into unlawful harassment of Jewish and Israeli students, the community needs to stand ready to protect them.

    http://brandeiscenter.com/blog/bds-returns-to-campus-and-it-is-time-to-fight-back/

    The BDS Movement Is About Dismantling Israel, Not The '67 Occupation

    The BDS movement tries to obfuscate its support for Israel's destruction (not its physical destruction, the end of its statehood). Whenever anyone asks about it, they are referred to its founding principles: the Palestinian Civil Society Calls for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions against Israel Until it Complies with International Law and Universal Principles of Human Rights of 2005.

    The demands make clear that the movement's goal is ending Israeli statehood, not just the post-1967 occupation. There is no reference to 1967 nor any invocation of the United Nations Security Council resolutions (242 and 338) which require the end of the 1967 occupation while preserving Israel's right to security and self-determination.

    No, there is only the demand for compliance with United Nations General Assembly Resolution 194 which was passed in 1948 and which requires the return of all the Palestinian refugees to Israel, along with the return to them of the property left behind. In other words, millions of the descendants of the original Palestinian refugees could return not just to the West Bank or Gaza but to Israel itself, essentially reversing the independence Israel achieved in 1948. As far as Israeli towns and villages, they would be "property" returned to the Palestinians. Hence, no more Israel.


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mj-rosenberg/the-bds-movent-is-about-d_b_5038233.html
  4. 30 Aug '14 20:38 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie to RJHinds
    awesome! You see Hinds there are people who realize that despite the shortsighted nature of violence that there are other ways of achieving ones aims. Hamas and the Israeli army have yet to realize this fact and actually boycotting goods and services is an excellent and peaceful way to bring pressure to bear on a state that has murdered ...[text shortened]... ing them, from MacCrapdolds to Nestle.

    There is nothing either vicious or deceptive about it.
    In June 2014 the US Presbyterian Church voted at its general convention
    to divest from three corporations that supply Israel with equipment used
    to support its military occupation of the West Bank. In response, some
    supporters of Israel predictably accused the Presbyterians of anti-Semitism.

    "Large American Jewish organizations lobbied the Presbytarians furiously
    to defeat a divestment vote ... the presence at the church's convention
    all week of Jewish activists, many of them young, in black T-shirts with
    the slogan, 'Another Jew Supporting Divestment'"
    --Laurie Goodstein (20 June 2014, 'New York Times' )

    So while 'large American Jewish organizations' strongly oppose divestment,
    some (likely increasingly many) individual American Jews do support it.

    "To me, this (divestment) helps the Palestinians build their power, so Israel
    is convinced, not by force, but by global consensus that something has to change"
    --Rabbi Alissa Wise (an American Jew who supports divestment)
  5. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    30 Aug '14 21:26 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    You mean like this:
    What does "dismantling Israel" actually imply?

    In one scenario it may imply the violent destruction of the Jewish population and all its resources, evicting them from the territory in order to replace the Jewish population with a non-Jewish, Palestinian population. Such a violation of the human rights of the Jewish population would never have the support of the United Nations and so is clearly not intended by this campaign.

    In a very different scenario, often called the "One State Solution," it implies dismantling the apartheid regime and its oppressive arrangements, replacing them with a non discriminatory, secular and democratic constitution, ending the "Law of Return" as it applies to people, often newly converted to Judaism, having no reasonable connection whatever with the territory, while seeking to allow on reasonable terms the free movement back into the territory of people forcibly removed from their homes and land. Realistically, this is most likely to be reduced to various forms of compensation.

    What is intended by promoting a United Nations sponsored solution is to ensure compliance with international law, which by definition would never include the types of violence and violation of human rights that have been perpetrated against the Palestinians by the Zionists.

    Of course, bearing in mind still the reference to UN resolutions, the most reasonable and rational interpretation would be the implementation of the "Two State Solution" which is, of course, the policy of the UN. Trying to argue that a movement promoting UN policy wants a solution contrary to UN policy is hysterical nonsense.
  6. 30 Aug '14 21:35
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    In June 2014 the US Presbyterian Church voted at its general convention
    to divest from three corporations that supply Israel with equipment used
    to support its military occupation of the West Bank. In response, some
    supporters of Israel predictably accused the Presbyterians of anti-Semitism.

    "Large American Jewish organizations lobbied the Presbytar ...[text shortened]... us that something has to change"
    --Rabbi Alissa Wise (an American Jew who supports divestment)
    Anti Semitism is like homophobia or bigotry, as soon as you take a stand its almost an obligatory term. Yes something has to change.
  7. 30 Aug '14 21:40
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Anti Semitism is like homophobia or bigotry, as soon as you take a stand its almost an obligatory term. Yes something has to change.
    Does the belief that Israel should not exist and the citizens of that country who are Jewish need to be wiped off the face of the earth be considered anti semitism?
  8. 30 Aug '14 21:42 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Anti Semitism is like homophobia or bigotry, as soon as you take a stand its almost an obligatory term.
    Yes something has to change.
    As I recall, Quackquack (a fanatical supporter of Israel) wrote that he's going
    to buy more Israeli bonds. No one has objected to how he spends his money.
    So why do so many supporters of Israel object to the diverse people who
    prefer *not* to spend their money in ways that they sincerely believe could
    help Israel further oppress the Palestinians?

    I would note that *every* American who pays taxes *already* is contributing
    financially (not necessarily by choice) to support Israel, including its continuing
    oppression of the Palestinians. I heard an American critic of Israel say,
    "I don't want Israel to get more of my money than it already has."
  9. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    30 Aug '14 21:53 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Does the belief that Israel should not exist and the citizens of that country who are Jewish need to be wiped off the face of the earth be considered anti semitism?
    The second belief would indeed be anti-Semitism and also promote a potential crime against humanity. As such it is not at all what supporters of the UN and opponents of Israeli racism and apartheid would be associated with.

    The first is merely a demand for political transformation. The apartheid state is not something that should be tolerated.
  10. 30 Aug '14 21:57
    Originally posted by finnegan
    The second belief would indeed be anti-Semitism and also promote a potential crime against humanity. As such it is not at all what supporters of the UN and opponents of Israeli racism and apartheid would be associated with.

    The first is merely a demand for political transformation. The apartheid state is not something that should be tolerated.
    If Israel falls as a state, then the Jewish people living there will be wiped from the face of the earth.

    You project a false duality.
  11. 30 Aug '14 21:57 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Finnegan to Eladar
    That belief would indeed be anti-Semitism and also promote a potential crime against humanity.
    As such it is not at all what supporters of the UN and opponents of Israeli racism and apartheid would be associated with.
    I think that it's essential *to separate the two points* in Eladar's claim.

    1) The killing of all Israeli Jews would be genocide and absolutely wrong.
    2) But the replacement of the current state of Israel (which is a Jewish
    supremacist state) by a democratic secular state of Palestine (or whatever
    name) in which every citizen (Jewish and non-Jewish) would have equal
    rights is *not* anti-Semitic. And that's what the PLO originally called for.

    P.S. I replied *before* Finnegan was able to edit his post.
  12. 30 Aug '14 21:59
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    I think that it's essential *to separate the two points* in Eladar's claim.

    1) The killing of all Israeli Jews would be genocide and absolutely wrong.
    2) But the replacement of the current state of Israel (which is a Jewish
    supremacist state) by a democratic secular state of Palestine (or whatever
    name) in which every citizen (Jewish and non-Jewish) would have equal
    rights is *not* anti-Semitic. And that's what the PLO originally called for.
    You can take that chance with your life. I do not think that Jews should be forced to do it.
  13. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    30 Aug '14 21:59
    Originally posted by Eladar
    If Israel falls as a state, then the Jewish people living there will be wiped from the face of the earth.

    You project a false duality.
    When apartheid was ended in South Africa, the White population retained all its human and economic rights and has indeed continued to prosper. Trying to represent this as something shocking and violent is just wrong.
  14. 30 Aug '14 22:02 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    When apartheid was ended in South Africa, the White population retained all its human and economic rights and has indeed continued to prosper. Trying to represent this as something shocking and violent is just wrong.
    Wow, the ignorance of your posts is quite astounding.
  15. 30 Aug '14 22:03 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar to Finnegan
    If Israel falls as a state, then the Jewish people living there will be wiped from the face of the earth.
    You project a false duality.
    Eladar's reiterating a familiar alarmist claim of Israeli propaganda.

    Daniel Barenboim (a close friend of the late Edward Said) is an Israeli Jew
    who has accepted Palestinian 'citizenship' (insofar as the Palestinian National
    Authority can grant it as legal status). He has been welcomed by Palestinians
    and feels quite comfortable among them.