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Debates Forum

  1. 16 Feb '16 23:01
    https://www.rt.com/usa/332657-marshals-arrest-student-loans/

    US Marshalls recently arrested some folks in Texas for not paying their student loans.

    Has debt prison returned?
  2. Standard member vivify
    rain
    17 Feb '16 04:29
    If this is true, that means anyone arrested for student loans may also have to post bail, which is also a loan, putting them in more debt.

    The circle of life.
  3. 17 Feb '16 13:52
    Originally posted by vivify
    If this is true, that means anyone arrested for student loans may also have to post bail, which is also a loan, putting them in more debt.

    The circle of life.
    Obama better build more prisons.
  4. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    17 Feb '16 14:34
    Originally posted by whodey
    https://www.rt.com/usa/332657-marshals-arrest-student-loans/

    US Marshalls recently arrested some folks in Texas for not paying their student loans.

    Has debt prison returned?
    Interesting. I read an article recently that they are pursuing student loan non-payers more vigorously in the UK. Although the terms on student loans in the UK, at least to my knowledge, are much easier than the ones in the US judging by the article. Also non-payment is not a criminal offence, one would have to fail to pay and then violate some court order to risk arrest - again I'm assuming that there has not been some sort of legislative change. The main point in the article you refer to is that private loan companies are able to use the Federal Marshall service to enforce the loans. Who exactly is paying for this?
  5. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    17 Feb '16 14:45 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    Interesting. I read an article recently that they are pursuing student loan non-payers more vigorously in the UK. Although the terms on student loans in the UK, at least to my knowledge, are much easier than the ones in the US judging by the article. Also non-payment is not a criminal offence, one would have to fail to pay and then violate some court ...[text shortened]... able to use the Federal Marshall service to enforce the loans. Who exactly is paying for this?
    That being the case, the cost would go to taxpayers, state, fed, local, whatever.

    I think they already have statutes in place for dead beat dads who don't pay child support so this sounds like an extension of that idea.

    Yep, it is in fact, debtors prison.

    If you are in prison, how do you go about paying off a debt. Presumably you have lost your job since you are now incarcerated so you wouldn't have money to pay anything off. AND you would now owe more due to court costs, bail and all that.

    This might be going after professionals who now have masters degree or higher and have been working collecting 100K + for ten years or so....
  6. 17 Feb '16 19:45 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    That being the case, the cost would go to taxpayers, state, fed, local, whatever.

    ....
    Bingo!

    Like everything else.

    It's not like the powers that be will pay out of pocket for anything. LOL.

    That's what uncle Bernie talks about in regards to "free" college. He just wants more taxpayer money going into the state run universities.
  7. Standard member vivify
    rain
    17 Feb '16 19:50 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Bingo!

    Like everything else.

    It's not like the powers that be will pay out of pocket for anything. LOL.

    That's what uncle Bernie talks about in regards to "free" college. He just wants more taxpayer money going into the state run universities.
    Is that worse than having millions of people with student debt that totals over a trillion? Is that worse than people going to jail for this debt?
  8. 17 Feb '16 20:11
    Originally posted by vivify
    Is that worse than having millions of people with student debt that totals over a trillion? Is that worse than people going to jail for this debt?
    The reason rates go up is that people and governments pay it.

    Everyone else in the universe is in an economic down turn, or death spiral, depending on your perspective.

    The student debt bubble is just that. They can only reduce interest rates so low. The only possible solution to keep the money flowing for universities is for government to take the money from all taxpayers, which is why I think Bernie, or someone like him, will soon make the switch.
  9. Standard member vivify
    rain
    17 Feb '16 21:10 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    The reason rates go up is that people and governments pay it.

    Everyone else in the universe is in an economic down turn, or death spiral, depending on your perspective.

    The student debt bubble is just that. They can only reduce interest rates so low. The only possible solution to keep the money flowing for universities is for government to take the mo ...[text shortened]... from all taxpayers, which is why I think Bernie, or someone like him, will soon make the switch.
    Rates go up because tuition fees go up. Universities are there to make money, not better the world. That's why the NCAA is notoriously unscrupulous toward their athletes.
  10. 17 Feb '16 21:15
    Originally posted by vivify
    Rates go up because tuition fees go up. Universities are there to make money, not better the world. That's why the NCAA is notoriously unscrupulous toward their athletes.
    Universities have become like hearth care. The rates keep rising because both insurance companies and government keep paying what they demand.

    If anyone refused to pay what they demanded, they have the option of either changing their business to adjust for cost or going out of business.
  11. 17 Feb '16 21:20
    Originally posted by whodey
    Universities have become like hearth care. The rates keep rising because both insurance companies and government keep paying what they demand.

    If anyone refused to pay what they demanded, they have the option of either changing their business to adjust for cost or going out of business.
    If only there was a way to make sure the purchasers of those services had a stronger negotiation position...
  12. Standard member vivify
    rain
    17 Feb '16 21:23 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Universities have become like hearth care. The rates keep rising because both insurance companies and government keep paying what they demand.

    If anyone refused to pay what they demanded, they have the option of either changing their business to adjust for cost or going out of business.
    That's the problem: you can't refuse to pay what they demand because a degree is essential to make a decent living nowadays.
  13. 17 Feb '16 21:43
    Originally posted by vivify to Whodey
    That's the problem: you can't refuse to pay what they demand because a degree is essential to make a decent living nowadays.
    Bill Gates and Kobe Bryant have been able to 'make decent livings' without college degrees.
    Quite a few entrepreneurs without college degrees have been successful in business.
    And some careers (e.g. dental hygienist) offer 'decent' pay without requiring a college degree.
    Police officers' educational requirements range from completing high school to a college degree.
  14. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    17 Feb '16 21:43
    Originally posted by vivify
    Is that worse than having millions of people with student debt that totals over a trillion? Is that worse than people going to jail for this debt?
    I had a little think about this. Why now, and why are governments helping in the chase quite so much? The way debt works is that the loan company packages up the debt into a collateralized debt obligation (CDO) and then sells it on financial markets. According to the article quoted in the OP it's an unsecure debt and so the student pays high interest and so the CDO would presumably have a low credit rating. However, unless they've changed the rules since 2008 it's possible that these things have been repackaged in other CDOs along with some high quality CDO to increase the overall credit score of the CDO without properly controlling the risk. There's a bit of bad financial weather at the moment - I wonder if they're worried about a student debt meltdown, like the sub-prime mortgage meltdown of 2008? Total debts of over 1 trillion dollars is enough to do that.
  15. Standard member vivify
    rain
    17 Feb '16 21:59 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Bill Gates and Kobe Bryant have been able to 'make decent livings' without college degrees.
    Quite a few entrepreneurs without college degrees have been successful in business.
    And some careers (e.g. dental hygienist) offer 'decent' pay without requiring a college degree.
    Police officers' educational requirements range from completing high school to a college degree.
    Did I really have to specify that MOST people need a degree to make a decent living?

    BTW, Bill Gates attended Harvard (arguably the most prestigious university in the world), and according to him, " made a lot of connections" there that contributed to his success, in addition to whatever he learned there.
    Kobe Bryant went to the NBA straight from high school, something not possible to do anymore since the NBA raised the minimum age to nineteen, and essentially forcing potential players to go to college first. This makes college an essential part of success for many people, even if they don't finish.

    And I clearly said "nowadays". Both Gates and Bryant first became successful over twenty years ago.