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Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    12 Mar '19 02:071 edit
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/11/the-white-women-who-flipped-the-price-of-changing-your-conservative-views

    "The white women who flipped: the price of changing your conservative views"

    "In Mississippi, being a conservative white woman is embraced and those
    who turn from those beliefs risk abuse, rejection or public humiliation"

    "Still happily married ]to a black man] after 25 years, Sherman-Breland
    [a white woman] now believes many women pay the price – through
    abuse, rejection or public humiliation – for rejecting America’s rat’s nest
    of conservatism and racism that has exploded into full relief in Trump’s America.'

    "The south isn’t alone in its paternalism and sexism, but it is still a high
    art form here. “It is absolutely taught,” Sherman-Breland says.
    “You understand as a young girl that your place is behind your man,
    not in front or beside him. You cannot have your own opinions.
    That’s the most prevalent way they keep you in check.”

    "Most conservative wedge issues trace back to racism and sexism,
    she argues, adding that those poison beliefs take many shapes:
    abortion and immigration might make white people the minority;
    affirmative action gives the supposedly inferior an equal shot at
    jobs and education; public assistance benefits “freeloaders” of color.
    White women continue to embrace such prevalent mores."

    "White supremacy and all its destructive deep-seated beliefs are, like
    other forms of barbarism, usually ascribed to men. But historian
    Elizabeth Gillespie McRae warns that it is a mistake to give white
    women a pass while ignoring their role in America’s systemic racism."

    "Segregation’s constant gardeners,” as McRae calls those [white] women,
    distributed myth-filled textbooks and created student essay contests
    justifying white supremacy in public schools. They also enforced
    “racial integrity laws” used to kick someone who had “non-white”
    blood out of school, or have their marriage license refused.
    Many of them were educated – some suffragists and newspaperwomen
    or even union advocates – and they purposefully helped create the
    twisted race politics that Sherman-Breland describes."

    "White women, she says, are still often the loudest voices in these
    battles to keep children of color and/or poverty from “tainting” schools."
  2. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
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    12 Mar '19 09:271 edit
    @duchess64 said
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/11/the-white-women-who-flipped-the-price-of-changing-your-conservative-views

    "The white women who flipped: the price of changing your conservative views"

    "In Mississippi, being a conservative white woman is embraced and those
    who turn from those beliefs risk abuse, rejection or public humiliation"

    "Still happily married ...[text shortened]... loudest voices in these
    battles to keep children of color and/or poverty from “tainting” schools."
    My family has a lot of mixed races within it. It isn't a big deal, and people who hate this come in all colors. Stereotyping about whites, blacks, men, women only serve those that have a hate towards any group, and you do seem to have a lot of bad things to say about people.
  3. Joined
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    12 Mar '19 12:43
    @duchess64 said
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/11/the-white-women-who-flipped-the-price-of-changing-your-conservative-views

    "The white women who flipped: the price of changing your conservative views"

    "In Mississippi, being a conservative white woman is embraced and those
    who turn from those beliefs risk abuse, rejection or public humiliation"

    "Still happily married ...[text shortened]... loudest voices in these
    battles to keep children of color and/or poverty from “tainting” schools."
    It wouldn't hurt to have a positive outlook on our species once in a while.
  4. Zugzwang
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    12 Mar '19 20:111 edit
    @mghrn55 said
    It wouldn't hurt to have a positive outlook on our species once in a while.
    Mghrn55 apparently hastens to make a personalized put-down after I cited an
    article that's largely about *a white American woman's criticisms of the dominant
    culture of racism around her in the USA*.

    I certainly am glad that I did NOT have to grow up (as she did) in a Mississippi
    dominated by toxic racism.

    I already know that this narrow forum is dominated by white Americans who are
    deeply racist or deeply determined to deny, minimize, or excuse racism in the USA.
    Most white Americans here have shown that they cannot tolerate any substantial
    criticisms of American racism, even when made by other white Americans.

    The USA will continue to be infested by toxic racism as long as most white Americans
    keep refusing to make any serious effort to examine racism with honest self-criticism.
  5. Zugzwang
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    12 Mar '19 20:121 edit
    @kellyjay said
    My family has a lot of mixed races within it. It isn't a big deal, and people who hate this come in all colors. Stereotyping about whites, blacks, men, women only serve those that have a hate towards any group, and you do seem to have a lot of bad things to say about people.
    So what? Some parts of the USA are more 'racially tolerant' than others.
    Would KellyJay like to claim that Chera Sherman-Breland must be lying about her
    experiences of racism with people (including family members) around her?

    The USA will continue to be infested by toxic racism as long as most white Americans
    keep refusing to make any serious effort to examine racism with honest self-criticism.
  6. Standard memberKellyJay
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    13 Mar '19 01:30
    @duchess64 said
    So what? Some parts of the USA are more 'racially tolerant' than others.
    Would KellyJay like to claim that Chera Sherman-Breland must be lying about her
    experiences of racism with people (including family members) around her?

    The USA will continue to be infested by toxic racism as long as most white Americans
    keep refusing to make any serious effort to examine racism with honest self-criticism.
    Don’t know her, know nothing about her experiences, and even you I have only seen off and on. I will say what little I have seen of your words, almost all are about running down large segments of society over and over again.

    Are you part of the toxic racism?
  7. Zugzwang
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    13 Mar '19 02:001 edit
    @kellyjay said
    Don’t know her, know nothing about her experiences, and even you I have only seen off and on. I will say what little I have seen of your words, almost all are about running down large segments of society over and over again.

    Are you part of the toxic racism?
    Evidently, KellyJay seems determined to deny or minimize white American racism.
    It's common for racist white Americans to accuse their critics of being racist simply
    for NOT agreeing with their pretense that racism does not (or barely) exist in the USA.

    "My family has a lot of mixed races within it."
    --KellyJay

    So what (if true)? Why did KellyJay bring that up in order to dismiss what
    Chera Sherman-Breland said about her common experiences of racism?

    Let's suppose she had written about her experiences with highly educated people.
    Then would KellyJay write this in order to dismiss her
    "My family has a lot of idiots or completely illiterate people in it." ?

    Most white Americans here have shown that they cannot tolerate any substantial
    criticisms of American racism, even when made by other white Americans.
  8. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
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    13 Mar '19 04:29
    @kellyjay said
    My family has a lot of mixed races within it. It isn't a big deal, and people who hate this come in all colors. Stereotyping about whites, blacks, men, women only serve those that have a hate towards any group, and you do seem to have a lot of bad things to say about people.
    I’m just pissed off that the stereotypical Scot isn’t portraid as having a very immense cock.

    Oh well, off to the pub tae drink ma sorrows.
  9. Behind the scenes
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    13 Mar '19 20:00
    @duchess64 said
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/11/the-white-women-who-flipped-the-price-of-changing-your-conservative-views

    "The white women who flipped: the price of changing your conservative views"

    "In Mississippi, being a conservative white woman is embraced and those
    who turn from those beliefs risk abuse, rejection or public humiliation"

    "Still happily married ...[text shortened]... loudest voices in these
    battles to keep children of color and/or poverty from “tainting” schools."
    Still happily married ]to a black man] after 25 years, Sherman-Breland [a white woman] now believes many women pay the price – through abuse, rejection or public humiliation – for rejecting America’s rat’s nest of conservatism and racism that has exploded into full relief in Trump’s America.'



    Duchess is 100% correct on this one.

    I'm going to savor this moment. I tell ya, it gives me a little hope. 🙂
  10. SubscriberSuzianne
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    13 Mar '19 22:08
    @mchill said
    Still happily married ]to a black man] after 25 years, Sherman-Breland [a white woman] now believes many women pay the price – through abuse, rejection or public humiliation – for rejecting America’s rat’s nest of conservatism and racism that has exploded into full relief in Trump’s America.'



    Duchess is 100% correct on this one.

    I'm going to savor this moment. I tell ya, it gives me a little hope. 🙂
    The hope here is that white women will wake up and realize that Donald Trump does not represent their 'best interests'.
  11. SubscriberWajoma
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    13 Mar '19 22:19
    @suzianne said
    The hope here is that white women will wake up and realize that Donald Trump does not represent their 'best interests'.
    Maybe it's because they don't define themselves by their sex or race, the way sexists and racists would like them to.
  12. SubscriberSuzianne
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    13 Mar '19 22:25
    @wajoma said
    Maybe it's because they don't define themselves by their sex or race, the way sexists and racists would like them to.
    What are you talking about?

    More poor reading comprehension.
  13. Zugzwang
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    13 Mar '19 23:35
    @suzianne said
    The hope here is that white women will wake up and realize that Donald Trump does not represent their 'best interests'.
    How much social pressure do you feel in Arizona to act like a conservative Christian white woman?
  14. Standard memberKellyJay
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    13 Mar '19 23:48
    @duchess64 said
    Evidently, KellyJay seems determined to deny or minimize white American racism.
    It's common for racist white Americans to accuse their critics of being racist simply
    for NOT agreeing with their pretense that racism does not (or barely) exist in the USA.

    "My family has a lot of mixed races within it."
    --KellyJay

    So what (if true)? Why did KellyJay bring that up i ...[text shortened]... t tolerate any substantial
    criticisms of American racism, even when made by other white Americans.
    No, not at all, there is plenty of racism among whites, but it isn't limited to whites.

    There is plenty of hate towards women and hate towards men.

    When all you pronounce is your dislike, distain, distrust of any group or color, don't you feel that you too may have an issue with racism as well? Do you think your immune to that, your above such things, you are special therefore beyond reproach?
  15. Zugzwang
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    14 Mar '19 00:053 edits
    @kellyjay said
    No, not at all, there is plenty of racism among whites, but it isn't limited to whites.

    There is plenty of hate towards women and hate towards men.

    When all you pronounce is your dislike, distain, distrust of any group or color, don't you feel that you too may have an issue with racism as well? Do you think your immune to that, your above such things, you are special therefore beyond reproach?
    Many white men here like to pretend that they are the biggest victims of racism and sexism.

    Most white Americans have an extremely poor 'comprehension' of racism.
    KellyJay fails to comprehend that racism is much more than individual prejudices.
    KellyJay completely ignore the structural and cultural dimensions of racism.

    To put it as a simple equation, racism = prejudice X power.
    Even if a minority group is as prejudiced as the majority (e.g. white people in the USA),
    it is less racist (or its racial prejudice is less important) because it has less power.
    A group that's practically powerless can be deeply prejudiced without its 'racism'
    seriously harming anyone else.

    The USA will continue to be infested by toxic racism as long as most white Americans
    keep refusing to make any serious effort to examine racism with honest self-criticism.
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