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  1. Joined
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    29 May '17 09:191 edit
    YouTube&t=285

    To all the "pragmatists" that scoff at the idea of an independent accomplishing anything in Washington.

    Seems that nobody in congress has gotten more amendments passed than Bernie Sanders. This in a house controlled mostly by republicans (excep 2007-2010). This is to show what you can accomplish if you just try to work for your voters and not your corporate donors. Bernie managed to get bipartisan support for a huge amount of amendments (the video link starts with a list of some of those amendments)


    Read more here:
    http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-gets-it-done-sanders-record-pushing-through-major-reforms-will-surprise-you
  2. Standard membersh76
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    29 May '17 12:46
    Though I fervently disagree with him on many issues and on his general philosophical approach to government, I wish all politicians were as dedicated, passionate and honest as Bernie.

    If you're interested in looking into a Republican counterpart - someone as conservative as Bernie is liberal and also who isn't afraid to call it as he sees it, come Hell or high water, check out Sen. Ben Sasse (R-NE).
  3. Joined
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    29 May '17 14:08
    Originally posted by sh76
    Though I fervently disagree with him on many issues and on his general philosophical approach to government, I wish all politicians were as dedicated, passionate and honest as Bernie.

    If you're interested in looking into a Republican counterpart - someone as conservative as Bernie is liberal and also who isn't afraid to call it as he sees it, come Hell or high water, check out Sen. Ben Sasse (R-NE).
    his stance on abortion:
    http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/culture/katie-yoder/2017/04/27/sen-ben-sasse-slams-pro-abortion-media-theres-just-not-honesty

    his stance on social programs (which he calls entitlements):
    https://www.conservativereview.com/articles/ben-sasse-were-not-telling-you-the-truth-about-entitlements
    It's funny that he isn't too concerned about Trump's entitlements for the rich but the entitlements poor people get.


    This was all i could find, he doesn't show up much. For example when trump's atrocious budget was being discussed. Or when trump's atrocious healthcare bill was being discussed. Or when trump's atrocious anything was being discussed.

    So this is your hero, huh. Or maybe not exactly a hero, but the very best republicans have to offer. I am not impressed.
  4. Subscriberno1marauder
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    29 May '17 15:53
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    his stance on abortion:
    http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/culture/katie-yoder/2017/04/27/sen-ben-sasse-slams-pro-abortion-media-theres-just-not-honesty

    his stance on social programs (which he calls entitlements):
    https://www.conservativereview.com/articles/ben-sasse-were-not-telling-you-the-truth-about-entitlements
    It's funny that he isn't too concerne ...[text shortened]... h. Or maybe not exactly a hero, but the very best republicans have to offer. I am not impressed.
    Your Google search function must be broke:

    http://ncn21.com/local-news/sasse-says-changes-likely-for-healthcare-bill-in-senate/
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/sen-ben-sasse-trump-sharing-intel-with-the-russians-is-weird/article/2623185
    https://www.axios.com/ben-sasse-is-the-first-gop-senator-to-criticize-trump-immigration-ban-2222227027.html

    Though Sasse does oddly think that interest on the national debt is an "entitlement": https://www.conservativereview.com/articles/ben-sasse-were-not-telling-you-the-truth-about-entitlements
  5. Subscriberno1marauder
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    29 May '17 16:12
    Originally posted by sh76
    Though I fervently disagree with him on many issues and on his general philosophical approach to government, I wish all politicians were as dedicated, passionate and honest as Bernie.

    If you're interested in looking into a Republican counterpart - someone as conservative as Bernie is liberal and also who isn't afraid to call it as he sees it, come Hell or high water, check out Sen. Ben Sasse (R-NE).
    You might be interested in this piece on Sasse in the lefty mag Mother Jones. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/nebraska-senator-ben-sasse-never-trump-republicans
  6. Standard membersh76
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    29 May '17 17:00
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    You might be interested in this piece on Sasse in the lefty mag Mother Jones. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/nebraska-senator-ben-sasse-never-trump-republicans
    Thanks. I skimmed it. But I'll bookmark the rest for later.

    I heard him on Ben Shapiro last week arguing that Greg "The Animal" Gianforte (my nickname) should not be seated (or that at least he should be expelled if he's convicted of assault) because short term political gain is not worth long term fomenting of mistrust in public institutions. The guy comes across about as genuine as any politician I've heard from recently.
  7. Standard membersh76
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    29 May '17 17:06
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    his stance on abortion:
    http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/culture/katie-yoder/2017/04/27/sen-ben-sasse-slams-pro-abortion-media-theres-just-not-honesty

    his stance on social programs (which he calls entitlements):
    https://www.conservativereview.com/articles/ben-sasse-were-not-telling-you-the-truth-about-entitlements
    It's funny that he isn't too concerne ...[text shortened]... h. Or maybe not exactly a hero, but the very best republicans have to offer. I am not impressed.
    Oookay, so in order for you to be "impressed" by a conservative, you're going to need him to be pro-abortion and in favor of increasing entitlements.

    Yeah, that's a realistic standard.
  8. Joined
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    29 May '17 20:39
    Originally posted by sh76
    Oookay, so in order for you to be "impressed" by a conservative, you're going to need him to be pro-abortion and in favor of increasing entitlements.

    Yeah, that's a realistic standard.
    "you're going to need him to be pro-abortion"
    not pro-abortion. just "pro-minding your own damn business about what a woman does with her body and the bundle of cells growing inside her". it's funny that conservatives that are so damn pro-life are supporting trump's budget that will cut funds from educational programs, from healthcare for children. you are only pro life as long as you don't have to care for the child, right?

    here's another argument (a ludicrous one) you keep going on and on how a fetus is a person. conservatives are pro guns claiming they have the right to shoot trespassers (persons) on their properties but a woman cannot evict that trespasser from her own body? or it's not her body anymore? it's yours? the fetus'? who exactly? you whine that a citizen should know better than the government what to do with his taxes but a woman should defer to some old men in government when it comes to her own body?

    "in favor of increasing entitlements."
    reasonable people don't call them entitlements. only asholes do. the same asholes that are now looking to give billions of tax breaks to the richest of the rich. jon stewart said that it's very funny how a poor person receiving welfare so he doesn't starve is a moocher, but a rich man receiving tax breaks is a savvy business man, a job creator.


    "Yeah, that's a realistic standard."
    a conservative shouldn't be anti-abortion. if he believes in small government, what better place to practice what he preaches than in what a woman being does with her body.
    a conservative shouldn't be anti-welfare and pro tax cuts for the rich. the poor need those money, the poor will spend those money. the poor will not resort to crime because of those money. the poor will not have to rack up huge hospital bills if healthcare is universal. the poor will get an education and become productive citizens, or at least their children will.

    the rich will stash those tax breaks in the caymans.

    so yes, one can be a conservative and not be anti-poor or dictate a woman what to do with her body.
  9. Standard membersh76
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    29 May '17 23:042 edits
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    "you're going to need him to be pro-abortion"
    not pro-abortion. just "pro-minding your own damn business about what a woman does with her body and the bundle of cells growing inside her". it's funny that conservatives that are so damn pro-life are supporting trump's budget that will cut funds from educational programs, from healthcare for children. you are only pro life as long as you don't have to care for the child, right?
    People who are anti-abortion (generally) are such because they think that abortion is baby-killing. Nobody would (or should) be "pro-minding your own damn business" at the expense of what they sincerely believe is baby-killing.

    I'm pro-choice (pre-viability) because I don't think abortion is baby-killing, so I'm not the best person to make the anti-abortion argument, but your cavalier dismissal of anti-abortion advocates and your ridiculous non-arguments that opposing abortion and entitlements is hypocritical is nonsense. A person can consistently believe that a killing a fetus is tantamount to killing a baby and that government re-distribution of assets is not the most efficient, fair or appropriate way to care for the poor.
  10. Joined
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    30 May '17 08:33
    Originally posted by sh76
    People who are anti-abortion (generally) are such because they think that abortion is baby-killing. Nobody would (or should) be "pro-minding your own damn business" at the expense of what they sincerely believe is baby-killing.

    I'm pro-choice (pre-viability) because I don't think abortion is baby-killing, so I'm not the best person to make the anti-abortion ...[text shortened]... -distribution of assets is not the most efficient, fair or appropriate way to care for the poor.
    "People who are anti-abortion (generally) are such because they think that abortion is baby-killing."
    and they are wrong. that thing isn't a baby any more than a kidney is. or a tumor

    "I'm pro-choice (pre-viability) because [...] is nonsense"
    well, i offered arguments why it's hypocritical.i am sure you can also offer arguments that aren't just verdicts.
    small government when it suits you. big government when it doesn't affect you. that's hypocritical. if you don't want to abort, don't. it's your body.

    "government re-distribution of assets is not the most efficient, fair or appropriate way to care for the poor"
    improve it then. anything can be improved. calling them entitlements while simultaneously giving tax breaks to the rich and disregarding the millions that need those social programs to survive is also hypocritical.
  11. Joined
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    30 May '17 08:48
    Originally posted by sh76
    People who are anti-abortion (generally) are such because they think that abortion is baby-killing. Nobody would (or should) be "pro-minding your own damn business" at the expense of what they sincerely believe is baby-killing.

    I'm pro-choice (pre-viability) because I don't think abortion is baby-killing, so I'm not the best person to make the anti-abortion ...[text shortened]... -distribution of assets is not the most efficient, fair or appropriate way to care for the poor.
    i am sure you've heard this before yet chose to ignore it.

    abortion rights isn't about whether the fetus is a human being or not. it's not about killing a person. it's about an individual's rights to one's body.

    you can't force someone to give a kidney to someone in need. you can't force someone to donate blood. someone refusing to donate a kidney to someone isn't killing him. it's not murder. he is dying on his own.

    if someone were to kidnap you and force you to donate blood or a kidney you would scream murder and rightfully so. tell me forcing a woman to carry a fetus to term is different. go on.

    and we can go into how abortions will happen anyway even if it were illegal, how inhumane it is to not even allow a rape victim to abort, how it's sexist towards women and many more arguments. all proving that anti-abortion is a stupid, indefensible stance.

    so yes, i totally can dismiss anyone having an anti-abortion stance.
  12. Joined
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    30 May '17 08:50
    i think i am done discussing off topic.

    if you want to breach the subject of bernie and how he can be an effective politician while being progressive and independent, i will be more than happy to. otherwise let the thread die.
  13. Joined
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    30 May '17 10:33
    Originally posted by sh76
    Though I fervently disagree with him on many issues and on his general philosophical approach to government, I wish all politicians were as dedicated, passionate and honest as Bernie.

    If you're interested in looking into a Republican counterpart - someone as conservative as Bernie is liberal and also who isn't afraid to call it as he sees it, come Hell or high water, check out Sen. Ben Sasse (R-NE).
    If he had not sold out to Hillary and enjoyed his wealth while preaching to the rest of us about redistribution perhaps I would have a little more respect for him

    This is a man who has never had a job and thinks Venezuela is a success story.
  14. Standard membersh76
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    30 May '17 16:00
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    i am sure you've heard this before yet chose to ignore it.

    abortion rights isn't about whether the fetus is a human being or not. it's not about killing a person. it's about an individual's rights to one's body.

    you can't force someone to give a kidney to someone in need. you can't force someone to donate blood. someone refusing to donate a kidney t ...[text shortened]... id, indefensible stance.

    so yes, i totally can dismiss anyone having an anti-abortion stance.
    ===abortion rights isn't about whether the fetus is a human being or not. it's not about killing a person. it's about an individual's rights to one's body. ===

    No. It's exactly about whether the fetus is a human being or not. Nobody can take the position that one's right to privacy outweighs another's right to life. Ergo, the most important question in the abortion debate is always (and will always be) the extent to which the fetus has the human right to life.
  15. Joined
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    30 May '17 16:36
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    "you're going to need him to be pro-abortion"
    not pro-abortion. just "pro-minding your own damn business about what a woman does with her body and the bundle of cells growing inside her". it's funny that conservatives that are so damn pro-life are supporting trump's budget that will cut funds from educational programs, from healthcare for children. you are ...[text shortened]... yes, one can be a conservative and not be anti-poor or dictate a woman what to do with her body.
    Why is it that you only favor the government minding its own business when it comes to women snuffing out their children, but when it comes to making a salary or wanting to get married, or educate your child or simply take a dump on an EPA regulated toilet you are all about government being in the picture and recording every last detail with the hope of their approval?
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