Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    16 Nov '15 19:081 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    An excellent analysis by Bernie. Of course, anything that goes beyond "Islam is evil!" is too complex for right wing "minds".

    Before the Iraq invasion it would have been unthinkable that a radical Islamist movement could control large parts of Iraq and Syria, two of the most secular nations in the region. Incessant Western meddling in the Middle East ...[text shortened]... enturism and on and on and on.

    It's long past time to stop the bleeding and get the hell out.
    No1, in light of your support for Bernie Sanders and in light of your comments on the Paris thread, what do you think of this quote from Sen. Sanders?

    What is important to understand is we have organizations, whether it is ISIS or Al Qaida, who do believe we should go back several thousand years. We should make women third-class citizens, that we should allow children to be sexually assaulted, that they are a danger to modern society.

    And that this world, with American leadership, can and must come together to destroy them. We can do that. And it requires an entire world to come together, including in a very active way, the Muslim nations.


    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/11/15/cbss_john_dickerson_asks_democratic_candidates_if_they_use_the_phrase_radical_islam_none_will.html
  2. Joined
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    16 Nov '15 22:491 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    There's a fine line between playing dumb and being dumb.

    Have you crossed it?
    It's a thing called humor.

    You know it's hard not to laugh at a fool. Bernie Sanders fits the bill.

    Do you really believe that climate change is the cause of terrorism like Bernie does? I thought your position was that the US meddling caused it all.
  3. Subscriberno1marauder
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    16 Nov '15 23:46
    Originally posted by whodey
    It's a thing called humor.

    You know it's hard not to laugh at a fool. Bernie Sanders fits the bill.

    Do you really believe that climate change is the cause of terrorism like Bernie does? I thought your position was that the US meddling caused it all.
    From your OP:

    “In fact, climate change is directly related to the growth of terrorism,” said Sanders.

    Does that say that climate change is "THE" cause of terrorism?

    There are multiple causes of the rise of violent Islamic extremists. There seems to be a direct link between the Syrian drought and the Syrian civil war with ISIS as a main player. The US meddling in Iraq created close to a 1 million refugees in Syria and caused the creation of AQ in Iraq which was the building block for ISIS. There are other factors as well.

    Sorry, it's not as simple as "Islam bad".
  4. Subscriberno1marauder
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    16 Nov '15 23:49
    Originally posted by sh76
    No1, in light of your support for Bernie Sanders and in light of your comments on the Paris thread, what do you think of this quote from Sen. Sanders?

    [quote]What is important to understand is we have organizations, whether it is ISIS or Al Qaida, who do believe we should go back several thousand years. We should make women third-class citizens, that we shou ...[text shortened]... ss_john_dickerson_asks_democratic_candidates_if_they_use_the_phrase_radical_islam_none_will.html
    If he proposes US military action in the Middle East, I won't support him. His comments are fairly vague, he has stated on other occasions that ISIS is a problem that should be dealt with by the people and nations of the region. Of course ISIS' ideology is abhorrent to any Progressive person but that does not mean that yet another US war in the Middle East is wise.
  5. Hy-Brasil
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    17 Nov '15 00:01
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    From your OP:

    “In fact, climate change is directly related to the growth of terrorism,” said Sanders.

    Does that say that climate change is "THE" cause of terrorism?

    There are multiple causes of the rise of violent Islamic extremists. There seems to be a direct link between the Syrian drought and the Syrian civil war with ISIS as a main player. ...[text shortened]... ng block for ISIS. There are other factors as well.

    Sorry, it's not as simple as "Islam bad".
    There seems to be a direct link between the Syrian drought and the Syrian civil war with ISIS as a main player - no1.marauder


    That's very interesting no.1

    However, pointing the finger at the CIA , British and Israeli intelligence for the creation of ISIS is much more closer to the truth than weather is.

    NSA documents released by Edward Snowden show this.
  6. Joined
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    17 Nov '15 00:58
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    There seems to be a direct link between the Syrian drought and the Syrian civil war with ISIS as a main player - no1.marauder


    That's very interesting no.1

    However, pointing the finger at the CIA , British and Israeli intelligence for the creation of ISIS is much more closer to the truth than weather is.

    NSA documents released by Edward Snowden show this.
    Human events like this are very seldom single causes.

    Why must it be either/or?

    ISIS became the force they have because of the power vacuum they were able to explode into.

    That power vacuum existed in part because of the instability of the region.

    That instability existed in part because of a long drought.

    That drought was probably caused by/worsened by global warming. [that we caused]

    ISIS ALSO owes it's existence to the war in Iraq, and our carelessness in handing out weapons etc.
    [which is also our fault]


    What we want in the region are stable states that don't breed terrorists.

    You can't have stable states when they can't grow food.

    As global warming gets worse, droughts and heat waves will get more frequent and worse. [among other effects].

    This will lead to more famines and instability in those parts of the world that are already poor and unstable.
    This will increase wars and terrorism. There and here.

    This is why military's and security agencies around the world list global warming as a major threat to
    national security.

    It's about time politicians started to catch on to this and then actually do something about it.
  7. Joined
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    17 Nov '15 01:22
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Human events like this are very seldom single causes.

    Why must it be either/or?

    ISIS became the force they have because of the power vacuum they were able to explode into.

    That power vacuum existed in part because of the instability of the region.

    That instability existed in part because of a long drought.

    That drought was probably caused ...[text shortened]... It's about time politicians started to catch on to this and then actually do something about it.
    Hungary built a wall. Trump's gonna build a wall.

    When in doubt, build a wall.

    (This is my Whodey imitation.)
  8. Zugzwang
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    17 Nov '15 02:14
    Originally posted by JS357
    Hungary built a wall. Trump's gonna build a wall.
    When in doubt, build a wall.

    (This is my Whodey imitation.)
    "When in doubt, build a wall."
    --JS357 (apparently sarcastically)

    If it worked in Berlin, but would Donald Trump risk being accused of copying the Chinese?
  9. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    17 Nov '15 03:00
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    From your OP:

    “In fact, climate change is directly related to the growth of terrorism,” said Sanders.

    Does that say that climate change is "THE" cause of terrorism?

    There are multiple causes of the rise of violent Islamic extremists. There seems to be a direct link between the Syrian drought and the Syrian civil war with ISIS as a main player. ...[text shortened]... ng block for ISIS. There are other factors as well.

    Sorry, it's not as simple as "Islam bad".
    "And that this world, with American leadership, can and must come together to destroy them" doesn't sound too vague to me. It sounds like he's saying that the world, under American leadership must come together to destroy ISIS. If he doesn't mean militarily, he is using quite a nonstandard version of the term "destroy."
  10. Joined
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    17 Nov '15 06:051 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    "And that this world, with American leadership, can and must come together to destroy them" doesn't sound too vague to me. It sounds like he's saying that the world, under American leadership must come together to destroy ISIS. If he doesn't mean militarily, he is using quite a nonstandard version of the term "destroy."
    He's right to say what must happen, but that doesn't mean he (or anyone) can make it happen. Well, let me amend that. I just watched "Dick Cavett's Vietnam." Can America lead this? I can understand the US provided much of the war materiel of WWII but this is different. The Soviets had by far the most casualties, and it's arguable who would have the right strategy this time.

    http://video.pbs.org/video/2365474570/

    What IS the right strategy? Containment?
  11. Standard memberRJHinds
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    17 Nov '15 06:18
    Originally posted by JS357
    He's right to say what must happen, but that doesn't mean he (or anyone) can make it happen. Well, let me amend that. I just watched "Dick Cavett's Vietnam." Can America lead this? I can understand the US provided much of the war materiel of WWII but this is different. The Soviets had by far the most casualties, and it's arguable who would have the right strat ...[text shortened]... this time.

    http://video.pbs.org/video/2365474570/

    What IS the right strategy? Containment?
    Containment is a political strategy, not a military strategy. 😏
  12. Standard memberRJHinds
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    17 Nov '15 06:23
    Originally posted by sh76
    "And that this world, with American leadership, can and must come together to destroy them" doesn't sound too vague to me. It sounds like he's saying that the world, under American leadership must come together to destroy ISIS. If he doesn't mean militarily, he is using quite a nonstandard version of the term "destroy."
    Words may be important in politics, but talk does little in a war where action is the important thing. 😏
  13. Subscriberno1marauder
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    17 Nov '15 08:00
    Originally posted by sh76
    "And that this world, with American leadership, can and must come together to destroy them" doesn't sound too vague to me. It sounds like he's saying that the world, under American leadership must come together to destroy ISIS. If he doesn't mean militarily, he is using quite a nonstandard version of the term "destroy."
    Not at all. ISIS' total strength has been estimated to be somewhere around 20,000 fighting men thus they are outnumbered by the Kurdish Peshmerga, Iraqi Army and Shia militias to the tune of approximately 20 or 30 to 1. Bernie has stressed the necessity of local forces to carry the fight against ISIS and it's unclear whether he is pivoting to support US military involvement.

    I'm sure his position will be clarified soon enough so we won't have to guess.
  14. Joined
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    17 Nov '15 09:16
    Originally posted by sh76
    "And that this world, with American leadership, can and must come together to destroy them" doesn't sound too vague to me. It sounds like he's saying that the world, under American leadership must come together to destroy ISIS. If he doesn't mean militarily, he is using quite a nonstandard version of the term "destroy."
    if he means militarily, why would he need the whole world to come together? so that each country may drop a bomb colored in their flag, with "fuk you isis" written in their language?


    of course he could mean indeed a global military coalition to show that nobody supports them.

    how about we wait for clarification on this quote before we speculate?
  15. The Catbird's Seat
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    17 Nov '15 18:02
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Human events like this are very seldom single causes.

    Why must it be either/or?

    ISIS became the force they have because of the power vacuum they were able to explode into.

    That power vacuum existed in part because of the instability of the region.

    That instability existed in part because of a long drought.

    That drought was probably caused ...[text shortened]... It's about time politicians started to catch on to this and then actually do something about it.
    Where have you been for two decades now? Even former global warming alarmists are now using the term "climate change" to reflect the reality that there hasn't been any warming.

    Even if there were, the geological and astronomical realities are the Earth's core, and the Sun are not in man's ability to control, and this planet's temperature has been much warmer in the past, even before man lit his first campfire.
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