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Debates Forum

  1. 25 Dec '10 17:21
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/bill-ayers-weird-obama-conspiracy-white-supremacist-clinton-created-shadowy-characters-of-rev-wright-others/

    Has anyone heard of Bill Ayers condemning Hillary Clinton for coming up with conspiracy theories about the shadowy figures Obama hung around like Bill Ayers and Rev Wright etc? Basically he claimes that she is responsible for the creation of such shadowy figures such as himself when they are, in reality, just ordinary folks.

    I find this interesting on two levels. First of all, I would think that anyone on the left would be targeting Fox news with any accusations of feral demagoguery. Secondly, why didn't McCain and Palin do the same?
  2. 25 Dec '10 17:48
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/bill-ayers-weird-obama-conspiracy-white-supremacist-clinton-created-shadowy-characters-of-rev-wright-others/

    Has anyone heard of Bill Ayers condemning Hillary Clinton for coming up with conspiracy theories about the shadowy figures Obama hung around like Bill Ayers and Rev Wright etc? Basically he claimes that she is respon ...[text shortened]... with any accusations of feral demagoguery. Secondly, why didn't McCain and Palin do the same?
    Are you actually suggesting that McCain/Palin didn't bring up Obama's association with Bill Ayers??
  3. Subscriber FreakyKBH
    Acquired Taste...
    25 Dec '10 18:07
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Are you actually suggesting that McCain/Palin didn't bring up Obama's association with Bill Ayers??
    I don't think that is what whodey is saying. I think he is saying what the record appears to support. Namely, Hilary did the mud-slinging first. Nothing shocking, that: the process we have adopted allows for each party to impale one another repeatedly until one person is left standing. The victor then faces the opposing side... which typically reaches right back into the bag of tricks as was used by the vanquished of the victor's party.

    Chicken, egg. Hilary back in April of 2008, followed by McCain in October of that year. Not that McCain didn't start hammering prior to October, but the mudslinging typically is within each respective party way before the opposing party takes their shots.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rick-ayers-/clintons-mccarthyism-and_b_97220.html

    http://www.slate.com/id/2202183/
  4. 25 Dec '10 18:10
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    I don't think that is what whodey is saying. I think he is saying what the record appears to support. Namely, Hilary did the mud-slinging first. Nothing shocking, that: the process we have adopted allows for each party to impale one another repeatedly until one person is left standing. The victor then faces the opposing side... which typically reaches ...[text shortened]... ost.com/rick-ayers-/clintons-mccarthyism-and_b_97220.html

    http://www.slate.com/id/2202183/
    I'm not disagreeing that Hilary brought some of these things up first.

    Whodey said:

    "Secondly, why didn't McCain and Palin do the same?"

    They DID do the same.
  5. Subscriber FreakyKBH
    Acquired Taste...
    25 Dec '10 18:21
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    I'm not disagreeing that Hilary brought some of these things up first.

    Whodey said:

    "Secondly, why didn't McCain and Palin do the same?"

    They DID do the same.
    Well, I guess you could say whodey doesn't understand the process, that all (most) of the mud comes from within first. Had McCain found the myriad shadowy figures first, it would have been taken as though he considered Obama his only competition. Very premature.
  6. 25 Dec '10 18:27
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Well, I guess you could say whodey doesn't understand the process, that all (most) of the mud comes from within first. Had McCain found the myriad shadowy figures first, it would have been taken as though he considered Obama his only competition. Very premature.
    McCain was more concerned with his primary challengers and then the democratic primary hadn't been decided yet so he didn't have a definite target. It didn't make sense for him to attack Obama when Clinton could be the candidate.
  7. 25 Dec '10 18:43
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    I'm not disagreeing that Hilary brought some of these things up first.

    Whodey said:

    "Secondly, why didn't McCain and Palin do the same?"

    They DID do the same.
    Repeatedly. Who could forget Sarah's nasally, whiny drone "...pallin' around with terrorists". She only said it about, oh, four million times.
  8. Subscriber FreakyKBH
    Acquired Taste...
    25 Dec '10 18:45
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    McCain was more concerned with his primary challengers and then the democratic primary hadn't been decided yet so he didn't have a definite target. It didn't make sense for him to attack Obama when Clinton could be the candidate.
    Agreed.
  9. 25 Dec '10 18:48
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    McCain was more concerned with his primary challengers and then the democratic primary hadn't been decided yet so he didn't have a definite target. It didn't make sense for him to attack Obama when Clinton could be the candidate.
    Yes, but during the Presidential campaign, not the primaries, they brought it up over and over and over.

    "We see America as the greatest force for good in this world," Palin said at a fund-raising event in Colorado, adding, "Our opponent though, is someone who sees America, it seems, as being so imperfect that he's palling around with terrorists who would target their own country."

    But in recent weeks Mr. McCain has questioned Mr. Obama's association with William Ayers, a former member of the radical group Weather Underground, and suggested, after a member of Hamas made a supportive statement about Mr. Obama, that ''it's clear who Hamas wants to be the next president of the United States.''

    They repeated those claims so much you would think that Ayres was Obama's running mate.
  10. 27 Dec '10 01:05 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Are you actually suggesting that McCain/Palin didn't bring up Obama's association with Bill Ayers??
    My question is why this came from the left first, but at the same time, Fox News and Republicans seem to be the only ones blamed with spreading it arouind?

    Secondly, does anyone believe Ayres saying that their were supremicist overtones in such accusations made by Hilary? In short, who is the bigger feral demagogue? Is it Hiliary for linking Obama to Ayres and Wright or is it Ayres for saying that such comments were do to white supremacy?
  11. 27 Dec '10 01:31
    Originally posted by whodey
    My question is why this came from the left first, but at the same time, Fox News and Republicans seem to be the only ones blamed with spreading it arouind?

    Secondly, does anyone believe Ayres saying that their were supremicist overtones in such accusations made by Hilary? In short, who is the bigger feral demagogue? Is it Hiliary for linking Obama to Ayres and Wright or is it Ayres for saying that such comments were do to white supremacy?
    I thought it was a pretty weak thread when it came from the Clinton camp and equally weak when it came for the McCain/Failin camp.

    Whether or not there were supremacist overtones is irrelevant.
  12. 27 Dec '10 01:54 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/bill-ayers-weird-obama-conspiracy-white-supremacist-clinton-created-shadowy-characters-of-rev-wright-others/

    Has anyone heard of Bill Ayers condemning Hillary Clinton for coming up with conspiracy theories about the shadowy figures Obama hung around like Bill Ayers and Rev Wright etc? Basically he claimes that she is respon ...[text shortened]... with any accusations of feral demagoguery. Secondly, why didn't McCain and Palin do the same?
    Basically he claimes that she is responsible for the creation of such shadowy figures such as himself when they are, in reality, just ordinary folks. -whodey




    -Leader of the 1960s and 70s domestic terrorist group Weatherman
    -“Kill all the rich people. ... Bring the revolution home. Kill your parents.”
    -Participated in the bombings of New York City Police Headquarters in 1970, of the Capitol building in 1971, and the Pentagon in 1972
    -Currently a professor of education at the University of Illinois


    Born in 1944, Bill Ayers, along with his wife Bernardine Dohrn, was a 1960s leader of the homegrown terrorist group Weatherman, a Communist-driven splinter faction of Students for a Democratic Society. Characterizing Weatherman as “an American Red Army,” Ayers summed up the organization's ideology as follows: “Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, Kill your parents.”

    Ayers was an active participant in Weatherman's 1969 “Days of Rage” riots in Chicago, where nearly 300 members of the organization employed guerrilla-style tactics to viciously attack police officers and civilians alike, and to destroy massive amounts of property via vandalism and arson; their objective was to further spread their anti-war, anti-American message. Reminiscing on those riots, Ayers says pridefully: “We'd ... proven that it was possible -- we didn't all die, we were still there.”

    http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2169


    Sounds like "just ordinary folks" to me
  13. 27 Dec '10 03:17
    Originally posted by whodey
    My question is why this came from the left first, but at the same time, Fox News and Republicans seem to be the only ones blamed with spreading it arouind?
    It came from Hilary first, but it wasn't as publicized an attack.

    The election itself was the main event and hence received a higher amount of press and then Fox news and the publicans just went on and on about it more than Clinton ever could have.

    They deserve a lot of the blame they got.
  14. 27 Dec '10 06:08
    If my memory serves me correct it was Sean Hannity to first expose the Obama/Ayers connection.

    In the mid-1990s, Ayers and his wife Bernardine Dohrn hosted meetings at their Chicago home to introduce Barack Obama to their neighbors during his first run for the Illinois Senate.


    Also,
    George Stephanopoulos queried Sen. Barack Obama about his long-standing connections to unrepentant domestic terrorist William Ayers during a Democratic debate. Obama challenged the question's relevancy, carefully avoided details, and pivoted to another topic of discussion.


    There is/was no attack on Obama by Hillary, Palin or Fox News. Mearly the truth of this dubious connection between a Presidential candidate and a terrorist was being exposed and brought to the publics attention. The lame stream media w/the exception of the brief query by Stephanopoulos , did all they could to sweep this fact under the rug.

    1.Obama's political coming-out party in the mid-1990s was hosted by Ayers and Dohrn
    2.The panel discussions in which Ayers and Obama both took part—that were organized by Michelle Obama
    3. The goodbye party for prominent Israel basher and Arafat apologist Rashid Khalidi, attended by Obama, Ayers and Dohrn.
    4.Obama and Ayers served together on the board of the Woods Fund for three years


    quotes taken from,

    http://townhall.com/columnists/GuyBenson/2008/04/24/debunking_obamas_ayers_fact_sheet/page/full/

    http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2169
  15. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    27 Dec '10 06:35
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    [b]If my memory serves me correct it was Sean Hannity to first expose the Obama/Ayers connection.

    In the mid-1990s, Ayers and his wife Bernardine Dohrn hosted meetings at their Chicago home to introduce Barack Obama to their neighbors during his first run for the Illinois Senate.


    Also, [quote]George Stephanopoulos quer ...[text shortened]... s_fact_sheet/page/full/

    http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2169[/b]
    which all goes to prove that when the int bank conspiracy finds a candidate for prez, not even their past can haunt them.....