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  1. 08 Dec '09 18:49
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8400639.stm

    President Evo Morales seems set to push ahead with the implementation of a new constitution to place indigenous peoples at the heart of Bolivia's government and society after his victory in Sunday's presidential election.
    A poor result for the opposition suggests an easier passage for social reforms and a lessening of demands for secession by departments traditionally opposed to Mr Morales, according to analysts.
    Preliminary results say that Mr Morales, an Aymara Indian and Bolivia's first indigenous president, won at least 61% of the vote, easily defeating his conservative opponents.


    Morales supporters say that the greater state control of the oil and gas sectors helped to boost government income.

    His critics say that state intervention may work well for redistributing income, but not for encouraging investment, technical and managerial expertise and the eradication of corruption.

    Government ministers say they want to attract foreign investment into new areas like the development of Bolivia's large deposits of lithium and iron ore.

    "We want partners, not patrons" is the oft-repeated slogan




    Is it fair to say Morales has done a good job so far, despite his relations with hugo chavez?
  2. 08 Dec '09 18:58
    I'm not sure. What do the facts say? How has the development of say GDP, Gini and public finances been?
  3. 08 Dec '09 19:02
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    I'm not sure. What do the facts say? How has the development of say GDP, Gini and public finances been?
    just from the article:

    "According to recent analysis by the Washington-based Center for Economic and Policy Research (CEPR), government revenue has increased by almost 20% of GDP since 2004.

    The Morales government has spent massively in recent months to counteract the effect of the global recession.

    CEPR says that from a fiscal surplus of 5% of GDP in early 2008 (worth several billion dollars), recent government spending meant this became a fiscal deficit in 2009.

    The Bolivian economy is set to grow this year by between 2.5% and 3.5%, one of the highest anywhere in the Americas.

    The IMF's director of Western hemisphere countries, Nicolas Eyzaguirre, has praised the Morales government for what he called its "very responsible" macroeconomic policies."

    sounds reasonable.
  4. 08 Dec '09 19:41
    In 2006 Bolivia had a Gini of about 60 (severe inequality), but I can't find a more recent figure to show developments in income equality.
  5. 08 Dec '09 19:43
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    In 2006 Bolivia had a Gini of about 60 (severe inequality), but I can't find a more recent figure to show developments in income equality.
    well, the article says there have been attempts to improve the situation.
  6. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    09 Dec '09 02:27
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8400639.stm

    [b]President Evo Morales seems set to push ahead with the implementation of a new constitution to place indigenous peoples at the heart of Bolivia's government and society after his victory in Sunday's presidential election.
    A poor result for the opposition suggests an easier passage for social ...[text shortened]... it fair to say Morales has done a good job so far, despite his relations with hugo chavez?
    Chavez and Morales are both able to do what they do because the West, especially the US, is so addicted to their oil.

    The day the Western developed countries find alternative technologies and wean off their addiction to oil, both countries will find out the hard way that a government run economy does not work where some level of innovation and creativity is required to stay competitive.
  7. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    09 Dec '09 03:05
    Originally posted by sh76
    Chavez and Morales are both able to do what they do because the West, especially the US, is so addicted to their oil.

    The day the Western developed countries find alternative technologies and wean off their addiction to oil, both countries will find out the hard way that a government run economy does not work where some level of innovation and creativity is required to stay competitive.
    Do you think the private sector should decide whether or not there is justice for indigenous peoples?
  8. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    09 Dec '09 04:19
    Originally posted by FMF
    Do you think the private sector should decide whether or not there is justice for indigenous peoples?
    Of course not.

    In any case, I'm not passing moral judgment on the economic policies of Messrs. Chavez and Morales. I'm saying that in the absence of an enormous and compelling cash crop, they will not work in the long run.

    You can have both: an economy that runs in the private sector and government intervention and regulation to ensure social justice. I believe that most western countries try to strike a balance between those two factors.
  9. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    09 Dec '09 05:57
    Originally posted by sh76
    In any case, I'm not passing moral judgment on the economic policies of Messrs. Chavez and Morales. I'm saying that in the absence of an enormous and compelling cash crop, they will not work in the long run.
    Well, it's probably also true to say that in the absence of an enormous and compelling cash crop, "capitalism" would not work very well in the long run either.
  10. 09 Dec '09 07:22
    Originally posted by sh76
    Of course not.

    In any case, I'm not passing moral judgment on the economic policies of Messrs. Chavez and Morales. I'm saying that in the absence of an enormous and compelling cash crop, they will not work in the long run.

    You can have both: an economy that runs in the private sector and government intervention and regulation to ensure social justice. I believe that most western countries try to strike a balance between those two factors.
    Isn't Morales trying to do that as well? His methods may not be effective, but I don't know enough about Bolivian politics to judge on that.
  11. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    09 Dec '09 07:28 / 3 edits
    The problem with the simplistic market lovers mainstream thinking is that it is their
    way or the highway. There is a lot of arrogance but even more of ignorance
    in thinking that it only works the way it (kind of) works in their books.

    Overall, I think that is the problem with the whole development issue: developed
    Western societies trying to push down the throat of developing countries the
    same formulas over and over again, when the social realities of developing
    countries are very particular and the 'Formula Book' of the IMF or the WB, or
    any other organization for that matter, just can't fit right in. Amartya Sen kind
    of approaches that from the mainstream, i.e. grassroots' generated development.

    I am not familiar with the Bolivian culture and society, but I think their mostly
    white elite already tried for years the usual model, and it worked wonders for
    them but left in misery millions and millions of the indigenous Bolivians. I think it is
    quite reasonable alternatives then, particularly if the Bolivians democratically
    elected Morales to do so.
  12. 09 Dec '09 07:41
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8400639.stm

    [b]President Evo Morales seems set to push ahead with the implementation of a new constitution to place indigenous peoples at the heart of Bolivia's government and society after his victory in Sunday's presidential election.
    A poor result for the opposition suggests an easier passage for social ...[text shortened]... it fair to say Morales has done a good job so far, despite his relations with hugo chavez?
    I think it's fair to say that he's doing a pretty good job. If 61% of Bolivians voted for him then they're obvioulsy happy with it. And if he doesn't go invading other countries then that's pretty much all that matters.
  13. 09 Dec '09 08:52
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8400639.stm

    [b]President Evo Morales seems set to push ahead with the implementation of a new constitution to place indigenous peoples at the heart of Bolivia's government and society after his victory in Sunday's presidential election.
    A poor result for the opposition suggests an easier passage for social ...[text shortened]... it fair to say Morales has done a good job so far, despite his relations with hugo chavez?
    In Bolivia the standards are pretty low, so I would say he has done a good job of getting some stability in government there for another return to a smidge of rule of law... however temporary.

    His policies are not generally good or strong for long-term growth, but the fact that he is preventing chaos or anarchy for now is an improvement over some of their prior presidents.

    Certainly China's demand for natural resources and Bolivia's abundant supply of fuels including natural gas would have helped a significant number of weak Bolivian Presidents but Evo Morales is dealing with it more responsibly than anticipated under the extremely low standards for Bolivia.
  14. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    09 Dec '09 09:11
    Originally posted by sh76

    The day the Western developed countries find alternative technologies and wean off their addiction to oil, both countries will find out the hard way that a government run economy does not work where some level of innovation and creativity is required to stay competitive.
    I love the combination of hubris and chutzpah in this observation. Feed it to pigs and they'll fly!
  15. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    09 Dec '09 13:41
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    I love the combination of hubris and chutzpah in this observation.
    And I'll bet you love its truth even more, huh?