Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Subscriberno1marauder
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    29 Jan '16 23:19
    The FBI has released video showing the shooting death of one of the insurrectionists, Robert "LaVoy" Finicum, If you don't want to watch a man die, don't watch it: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/01/28/fbi-releases-video-shooting-death-oregon-protester/79490322/

    Without sound, whether the shooting was justified or not is unclear. Finicum does clearly make a motion to his pocket and he was not "fully cooperating" as some reports from sympathizers claim. Also contrary to their claims, Finicum and the people in the van were not unarmed; he had a loaded 9mm handgun in his pocket and two .223 caliber semi-automatic rifles and a .38 special revolver were found in the truck. That is, of course,the FBI and Oregon state Police are making that up.
  2. The Catbird's Seat
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    30 Jan '16 07:32
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Of course, the circumstances surrounding the use of deadly force by law enforcement should be fully investigated as always. One wonders whether some posters here will adopt the extremely uncritical view of such force that they have previously endorsed in cases where unarmed black men have been killed by police.
    In each and every case I've seen you argue of an "unarmed" black man, the investigation has gone to the ends of the earth. I agree that all killings by government agents (lawmen) ought to be vigorously investigated as to propriety and legality.
  3. The Catbird's Seat
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    30 Jan '16 07:42
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    The FBI has released video showing the shooting death of one of the insurrectionists, Robert "LaVoy" Finicum, If you don't want to watch a man die, don't watch it: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/01/28/fbi-releases-video-shooting-death-oregon-protester/79490322/

    Without sound, whether the shooting was justified or not is unclear. Finicum does ...[text shortened]... were found in the truck. That is, of course,the FBI and Oregon state Police are making that up.
    The only relevant weapon was the one in Finicum's pocket. The loaded weapons in the car weren't readily available for him to bring into play. In every incident in memory, it was cops who got trigger happy and killed a civilian significantly less armed up than they were. In this particular case, Finicum had a single handgun in his coat pocket, while multiple cops were equipped with assault rifles, and handguns, and had him virtually surrounded.
  4. Standard memberSoothfast
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    30 Jan '16 07:53
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Looks like the clown show in Oregon took a deadly turn last night:

    One protester was shot dead and eight others were arrested on Tuesday after authorities confronted members of an armed group that has staged a month-long occupation of a federal wildlife reserve in Oregon, activists and officials said.

    The FBI said gunshots rang out after officers s ...[text shortened]... embers to make their way to Malheur to stand up against this government "tyranny" so stay tuned.
    Things aren't looking too rosy for the "Bozo Bundy Cowliphate," that's for sure. Uncle Sam seems not too inclined to cave in and give them the "free stuff" that they think is their due.
  5. Joined
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    30 Jan '16 12:18
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Let's wait and see, whether or not this follows the course of previous gubmint actions against citizens. I already see in your citations indications that the man shot was "cooperating".
    Michael Brown, Michael Brown!!

    Oh wait, this is whitey.

    Never mind
  6. Joined
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    30 Jan '16 12:19
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    You're a state worshipping happy clapper who completely rejects that state bureaurats abusing their authority might mount vendettas against individuals.

    Your love of the state has reached the level of fanaticism.

    Your rose tinted glasses that you use for scrutinizing the state are so thick they need a jockey wheel to support them otherwise you would topple forwards head first into the pavement.
    Let him have his wet dream. He lives for this sort of thing.
  7. Subscriberno1marauder
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    30 Jan '16 13:07
    Originally posted by normbenign
    The only relevant weapon was the one in Finicum's pocket. The loaded weapons in the car weren't readily available for him to bring into play. In every incident in memory, it was cops who got trigger happy and killed a civilian significantly less armed up than they were. In this particular case, Finicum had a single handgun in his coat pocket, while multiple cops were equipped with assault rifles, and handguns, and had him virtually surrounded.
    In previous cases, you have never insisted on equality of weaponry between police and the people they shot.

    Fleeing from a stop, attempting to evade a roadblock and then leaving the vehicle armed are all pretty foolish and dangerous acts. I would like to know what exactly was said by Finicum and the police immediately prior to the shooting. It may be difficult to determine; the surviving insurrectionists have been shown to have lied already and police versions of incidents are usually more poetry than history.
  8. Joined
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    30 Jan '16 13:56
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    In previous cases, you have never insisted on equality of weaponry between police and the people they shot.

    Fleeing from a stop, attempting to evade a roadblock and then leaving the vehicle armed are all pretty foolish and dangerous acts. I would like to know what exactly was said by Finicum and the police immediately prior to the shooting. It may be ...[text shortened]... hown to have lied already and police versions of incidents are usually more poetry than history.
    The whole thing was foolish and dangerous period. The truth will be as scarce as hens teeth from both sides.
  9. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    30 Jan '16 17:13
    No Bail
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
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    11 Feb '16 20:13
    Well it's all over but the trials, sentencings and prison time for our insurrectionists; the last four have surrendered. http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/11/us/oregon-standoff/index.html

    Even better:

    His decision came after the armed occupiers indicated they would turn themselves in Thursday morning, hours after federal agents arrested Cliven Bundy, the father of protest leader Ammon Bundy.

    Ammon Bundy has already been arrested in the standoff.

    Oregon siege: What the armed group wants and why

    A Facebook page for Cliven Bundy's ranch announced that Bundy -- who came to the national spotlight in a fight with the federal Bureau of Land Management over grazing rights for his cattle in 2014 -- was heading to Oregon earlier Wednesday.

    "It's time," the post said. "Cliven Bundy is headed to the Harney County Resource Center in Burns Oregon."

    Bundy was taken into federal custody in Portland, Oregon, after landing there early Thursday morning, the FBI said.

    Bundy to appear in court Thursday
    He was charged with six counts relating to the 2014 standoff with the federal government, according to a criminal complaint filed Thursday in U.S. District Court in Nevada.

    Cliven Bundy's mugshot was released by the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office.
    He was charged with conspiracy to commit an offense against the United States, assault on a federal law officer by use of a deadly and dangerous weapon, interference with commerce by extortion, and obstruction of justice. He was also charged with two counts of use and carry of a firearm in relation to a crime of violence, the complaint said.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/11/us/oregon-standoff/index.html

    About time.
  11. Joined
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    11 Feb '16 22:16
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Well it's all over but the trials, sentencings and prison time for our insurrectionists; the last four have surrendered. http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/11/us/oregon-standoff/index.html

    Even better:

    His decision came after the armed occupiers indicated they would turn themselves in Thursday morning, hours after federal agents arrested Cliven Bundy, the ...[text shortened]... he complaint said.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/11/us/oregon-standoff/index.html

    About time.
    Only the one guy got shot. I am surprised about that. Patience and tact. gave a much better result than other methods used in the past.
  12. The Catbird's Seat
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    11 Feb '16 23:14
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    In previous cases, you have never insisted on equality of weaponry between police and the people they shot.

    Fleeing from a stop, attempting to evade a roadblock and then leaving the vehicle armed are all pretty foolish and dangerous acts. I would like to know what exactly was said by Finicum and the police immediately prior to the shooting. It may be ...[text shortened]... hown to have lied already and police versions of incidents are usually more poetry than history.
    Agree on all points.
  13. The Catbird's Seat
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    11 Feb '16 23:16
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    In previous cases, you have never insisted on equality of weaponry between police and the people they shot.

    Fleeing from a stop, attempting to evade a roadblock and then leaving the vehicle armed are all pretty foolish and dangerous acts. I would like to know what exactly was said by Finicum and the police immediately prior to the shooting. It may be ...[text shortened]... hown to have lied already and police versions of incidents are usually more poetry than history.
    One thing we know for certain, is that trigger happy cops will do whatever it takes to cover their backsides.
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