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  1. 14 Aug '13 00:29
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/12/john-grisham-guantanamo-bay-us-wrong

    "Guantanamo Bay: the US was dead wrong but no one can admit it"
    --John Grisham (12 August 2013)

    "Nabil (Hadjarab) has not been our (US) only 'mistake' in our war on terror.
    Hundreds of other Arabs have been sent to Gitmo, chewed up by the
    system there, never charged, and eventually transferred back to their
    home countries....There have been no apologies, no official statements
    of regret, no compensation, nothing of the sort. The US was dead wrong,
    but no one (meaning no American in power) can admit it."
    --John Grisham

    I believe that Nabil Hadjarab deserves far more than 'a few thousand' USD
    (which John Grisham would like to offer him) as 'compensation' for 11 years
    of often brutal wrongful imprisonment at Guantanamo.

    At the root of this continuing US brutalization of detainees at Guantanamo
    is the common American dehumanization of Arabs and Muslims today.
    Americans have long tended to dehumanize their perceived non-white
    enemies: the 'Indians', Mexicans, Filipinos, Japanese, Koreans, Chinese,
    Vietnamese, etc. and lately the Afghans and Arabs, which helps most
    Americans rationalize the many US war crimes against these peoples.
    Having sown the wind, the United States might someday reap the whirlwind
    if some of these long-suffering peoples should gain the upper hand in their
    struggles against US imperialism and militarism.
  2. 14 Aug '13 04:21
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/12/john-grisham-guantanamo-bay-us-wrong

    "Guantanamo Bay: the US was dead wrong but no one can admit it"
    --John Grisham (12 August 2013)

    "Nabil (Hadjarab) has not been our (US) only 'mistake' in our war on terror.
    Hundreds of other Arabs have been sent to Gitmo, chewed up by the
    system there, never ...[text shortened]... hould gain the upper hand in their
    struggles against US imperialism and militarism.
    Why don't you just come out with your reasons for the nonexistence of the US as it is, and a proposal for a suitable world order that will be acceptable to you?
  3. 14 Aug '13 07:51
    Originally posted by JS357
    Why don't you just come out with your reasons for the nonexistence of the US as it is, and a proposal for a suitable world order that will be acceptable to you?
    why do you dismiss the original post just because of the original poster? is what she said any less horrible just because you don't like her?
  4. 14 Aug '13 14:45
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    why do you dismiss the original post just because of the original poster? is what she said any less horrible just because you don't like her?
    Who's dismissing it? Americans have been calling for the closing of Guantanamo bay for years. Our president promised to do it in his first year in office. He hasn't done it and there have been pretty big protests because of it. I think what JS is protesting is Duchess's constant trolling of American posters in this forum. She clearly has an axe to grind and it gets pretty old.
  5. 14 Aug '13 15:18
    Originally posted by dryhump
    Who's dismissing it? Americans have been calling for the closing of Guantanamo bay for years. Our president promised to do it in his first year in office. He hasn't done it and there have been pretty big protests because of it. I think what JS is protesting is Duchess's constant trolling of American posters in this forum. She clearly has an axe to grind and it gets pretty old.
    if i enter a thread i read what was posted. i judge the post not the poster.
  6. 14 Aug '13 16:08
    Originally posted by dryhump
    Who's dismissing it? Americans have been calling for the closing of Guantanamo bay for years. Our president promised to do it in his first year in office. He hasn't done it and there have been pretty big protests because of it. I think what JS is protesting is Duchess's constant trolling of American posters in this forum. She clearly has an axe to grind and it gets pretty old.
    Obama signed an executive order to close it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13492

    Some people say Obama didn't really intend to close it though. Here is an excerpt from the link below.

    Jim Moran (D-VA). In an interview Thursday with The Daily Beast, Moran said that when fight was on, the White House was nowhere to be found.

    “They left all of us twisting in the wind,” he said. “Rightly or wrongly, they gave us a very clear impression, ‘You’re on your own on this issue.’'

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/23/how-obama-bungled-the-guantanamo-closing.html

    Obama often pretends to make an effort to fulfill his campaign promises when he doesn't really fight for them at all. This is just clever trickery to use the republicans as scape goats while he continues to support American imperialism. Guys like Moon1969 and USarmyparatrooper will fall for it every time because they believe what they want to believe and they want to believe Obama is a swell guy who is trying his best.

    They can't bring themselves to believe they voted for a fascist, imperialist just like Bush.
  7. 14 Aug '13 16:21
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/12/john-grisham-guantanamo-bay-us-wrong

    "Guantanamo Bay: the US was dead wrong but no one can admit it"
    --John Grisham (12 August 2013)

    "Nabil (Hadjarab) has not been our (US) only 'mistake' in our war on terror.
    Hundreds of other Arabs have been sent to Gitmo, chewed up by the
    system there, never ...[text shortened]... hould gain the upper hand in their
    struggles against US imperialism and militarism.
    Politicians that voted to keep Guantanamo Prison will never admit they are wrong. Politicians that voted to close it will admit the other politicians are wrong.
  8. 14 Aug '13 16:37 / 1 edit
    Having sown the wind, the United States might someday reap the whirlwind
    if some of these long-suffering peoples should gain the upper hand in their
    struggles against US imperialism and militarism.


    Or we could just wipe them from the face of the earth, but the people in power think they need the slave labor.

    Slave labor is the reason why European countries allowed the Muslims in, now the general population gets to pay the price.
  9. Standard member empovsun
    Adepto 'er perfectu
    14 Aug '13 22:46 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by dryhump
    Who's dismissing it? Americans have been calling for the closing of Guantanamo bay for years. Our president promised to do it in his first year in office. He hasn't done it and there have been pretty big protests because of it. I think what JS is protesting is Duchess's constant trolling of American posters in this forum. She clearly has an axe to grind and it gets pretty old.
    who is she trolling with this thread? it's just a thread about gitmo...

    i think the problem here is the fact that she is pointing out the huge moral black eye that america has on her beautiful face. sure, it's a d*** thing to do, but we should be more attentive on the black eye instead of a heckler. simply, if you don't want people to belittle your nation's character, the solution should be fixing the problem.

    axe to grind? we all should have an axe to grind when it comes to inhumanity, and detaining innocent people. it may have gotten old with you, but it certainly hasn't with them. someone should remind obama that this is an issue that never gets "old", and it needs to be discussed now.
  10. 15 Aug '13 01:41
    Originally posted by JS357
    Why don't you just come out with your reasons for the nonexistence of the US as it is, and a proposal for a suitable world order that will be acceptable to you?
    I don't understand how any reasonable person could have misinterpreted
    my post as me allegedly advocating the forcible 'non-existence of the US'.
  11. 15 Aug '13 01:50 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by dryhump
    Who's dismissing it? Americans have been calling for the closing of Guantanamo bay for years. Our president promised to do it in his first year in office. He hasn't done it and there have been pretty big protests because of it. I think what JS is protesting is Duchess's constant trolling of American posters in this forum. She clearly has an axe to grind and it gets pretty old.
    "Americans have been calling for the closing of Guantanamo bay for years."
    --Dryhump

    *Some* 'Americans have been calling for that', but it's disingenuous to
    imply that all or even most Americans have been calling for that. Indeed,
    many Americans (including the most powerful) have opposed closing Gitmo,
    arguing that keep it in operation is essential for US national security.

    I know quite well that many 'patriotic' Americans like to believe that the
    United States must be above criticism, and they deeply resent any criticism
    coming from a perceived foreigner. I have been the target of personalized
    threads created by some Americans here just to invite people to make more
    personal attacks against me. That's how many Americans like to respond--
    with personal abuse of anyone who dares to criticize the United States.

    My general point is that flag-waving jingoistic Americans don't represent
    all Americans. And I have American friends and relatives who seem as
    appalled as I am by the common American dehumanization of Arabs and
    Muslims (as well as East Asians earlier).
  12. 15 Aug '13 02:08 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by empovsun
    who is she trolling with this thread? it's just a thread about gitmo...

    i think the problem here is the fact that she is pointing out the huge moral black eye that america has on her beautiful face. sure, it's a d*** thing to do, but we should be more attentive on the black eye instead of a heckler. simply, if you don't want people to belittle your natio mind obama that this is an issue that never gets "old", and it needs to be discussed now.
    First of all, my post cited an article by John Grisham, an American writer,
    based upon his personal acquiantance with an innocent Arab Muslim who
    has been imprisoned and brutalized at Guantanamo. I added a few
    comments, based upon historical facts, about the common American
    dehumanization of its perceived non-white enemies. I would submit that
    US war crimes have been substantially influenced by American racism,
    whether or not most Americans like to admit that American racism exists.

    Recently, a friend of mine in London read a book (written by an American)
    about US war crimes in the Vietnam War and the continuing American
    attempts to cover up and to deny them. He wondered whether or not
    the US edition would be censored (it's not in this case) in order not to
    risk offending 'patriotic' Americans. (Some US editions of British books
    have been censored in order to remove 'controversial' matter that might
    offend too many Americans.) He has some relatives in the United States,
    and he has spent time there. He simply does not perceive the United
    States, however, in nearly as flattering a light as most Americans would
    prefer all foreigners to perceive their country.

    During his 2008 US presidential campaign, Barack Obama promised to close
    Gitmo. As of late 2013, there's still no sign that Gitmo's near being closed.
    If a foreign government were detaining innocent white Americans under
    Gitmo-like conditions, would not most Americans be outraged and inclined
    to distrust any promises made by that foreign government?
  13. Standard member empovsun
    Adepto 'er perfectu
    15 Aug '13 04:44
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    If a foreign government were detaining innocent white Americans under
    Gitmo-like conditions, would not most Americans be outraged and inclined
    to distrust any promises made by that foreign government?
    why white? any innocent american detained would grab my attention. as for the disdain that is being created overseas...we shouldn't be surprised by that. not one bit. another cold war is brewing right now
  14. 15 Aug '13 11:13
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    "Americans have been calling for the closing of Guantanamo bay for years."
    --Dryhump

    *Some* 'Americans have been calling for that', but it's disingenuous to
    imply that all or even most Americans have been calling for that. Indeed,
    many Americans (including the most powerful) have opposed closing Gitmo,
    arguing that keep it in operation is essenti ...[text shortened]... common American dehumanization of Arabs and
    Muslims (as well as East Asians earlier).
    Funny, you forgot to include the qualifier *some* in your original post. When it suits your purposes it's great to make it sound like all Americans feel a certain way. When someone points out that, in fact, many Americans don't feel the way you suggest, they had better be sure to use exact language, right? Obviously you want us to believe that *most* Americans believe that Muslims are less then human. This simply isn't true.
  15. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    15 Aug '13 17:27
    Originally posted by Eladar
    [b]Having sown the wind, the United States might someday reap the whirlwind
    if some of these long-suffering peoples should gain the upper hand in their
    struggles against US imperialism and militarism.


    Or we could just wipe them from the face of the earth, but the people in power think they need the slave labor.

    Slave labor is the reason why European countries allowed the Muslims in, now the general population gets to pay the price.[/b]
    No, you can't wipe them from the face of the Earth. That's a standard Germanic way of thinking and it doesn't work. Are the Ashkenazim and Gypsies gone? Nope. Are the indigenous Americans gone? Nope.